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Poverty in the UK

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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 04 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourte wrote:
A question: Do people here think that a government should be handing out benefits to working households? I'm talking things like Employment and Support Allowance.
Do people feel that wages should be higher which would mean no benefits paid out, more taxes to government?

One of the biggest problems (I know - there are lots!) is the zero hours saga. That's a scourge on the planet.

I know someone who'll be getting all shaky just reading that Laughing

As I said above it's not all about wages, it's about hours. When people were paid tree fiddy an hour an employer might be ok with them sitting on their arse doing nothing for some of the day. At £10 an hour* they'll make bloody sure there's no waste, which normally means part-time, zero hours and 'flexible' working (as in flexible for the employee). An example would be a pal who worked part time in Argos, and was called in everytime they had a delivery.

They had a woman on the BBC last night who had 3 part time jobs and was still receiving benefits/struggling financially. That's the future I'm afraid.

*I'm not against higher wages, I just don't see it as the solution. Reliable full-time jobs are.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 04 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourte wrote:
A question: Do people here think that a government should be handing out benefits to working households? I'm talking things like Employment and Support Allowance.
Do people feel that wages should be higher which would mean no benefits paid out, more taxes to government?

One of the biggest problems (I know - there are lots!) is the zero hours saga. That's a scourge on the planet.

I know someone who'll be getting all shaky just reading that Laughing


Working households getting benefits is a Labour policy and a side effect of democracy. It means that the middle classes feel they "get something" from the government, when they don't really, they are just being bribed with their own money. E.g.
Tories: £1k tax cut
Labour: £800 in tax credits
Same thing though. Note that Labour figure will always be lower due to the administrative overhead of the tax credits.

Also note that if you're on the new student loan system you'll get an additional ~10% tax, so the higher rate is now around 50% for these people!
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 04 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What certain people here Rolling Eyes forget is that the threshold for poverty rises, and wages rise, is that living costs also rise. It's not rocket science.

When you consider single digit raises (seems to be the norm, public sector etc), utilities rise, council tax rises, rent goes up, fuel prices, food costs, etc.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 06:14 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

About working hours etc:

ONS official line for what classes as "in employment" is at least one hour of work per week.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46264291
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
About working hours etc:

ONS official line for what classes as "in employment" is at least one hour of work per week.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46264291


That's ridiculous.

The criteria for employment should be whether they are a net tax contributor in my view but that's never going to happen.

I don't even understand how zero hours contracts work with reference to benefits. If it takes so long to get benefits sorted, as we are told many times on the media, how do they allow for zero hours contracts when one week someone might earn nothing?
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piazza
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could work 16 hours a week 15 years ago and get benefits, it's not a new thing.

I worked 30 hours a week and what you made on top of the basic dole money was deducted by means of rent calculations, council tax etc.
I was left with about £15 a week spare not including travel to work.
And they would only calculate it after you had been paid.

But! I must have been doing it wrong cos I had no huge tv, games console etc. That's just experience tho, no way is it to be considered factual. Rolling Eyes
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piazza
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty sure it's been stated numerous times that that is the way people live on the dole!

Please explain where I went wrong? and why you and everyone else that insists it's true doesn't use it to their advantage Thinking

Also tell me how much your tax would go down with no unemployed?
Too many pish talkin moral wankers in here Thumbs Up
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

People should sell all their possessions before claiming JSA?
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piazza
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
piazza wrote:
Pretty sure it's been stated numerous times that that is the way people live on the dole!

Please explain where I went wrong? and why you and everyone else that insists it's true doesn't use it to their advantage Thinking


OK, cutting the victim card, are you saying you were on the dole from school and never had a decent sized TV and Sky, or are saying you had all that before you were on benefits, so sold them to pay the bills.

Honestly.

piazza wrote:
Also tell me how much your tax would go down with no unemployed?
Too many pish talkin moral wankers in here Thumbs Up


We'll never know will we, because the government have no idea how many people on benefits are taking the piss? If it means being a "pish talkin moral wanker" for not approving of these freeloaders, so be it.

I pay my own way in life, I don't expect to live off others. It;s far too easy for people to not work even if they're quite capable of doing so, even if that entails working from home. No matter how bad a back is, I'll bet they can struggle to use a PC for hours on end.



Being unemployed doesn't make you a victim you frothing mentalist Laughing
No one is playing any card I was merely pointing out the reality from a fact based point of view rather than you continuing to spout whatever fills your agenda from the news.
Also, there was no Sky or big scren tv's. They probably spent it all on beer and glue back then, or at least I think I saw someone do that, once Thumbs Up
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
People should sell all their possessions before claiming JSA?

FWIW the couple of times I've had to sign on, I waited until I had literally no money left*, when I believe the threshold is something like 8k (up to 16k they deduct money iirc). With the reported 6 week wait of UC, if I ever have to sign on again I won't be doing that.

The old system definitely discouraged people from taking sporadic work as it was such a pain stopping then reclaiming benefits, although UC doesn't seem to have solved anything, and in some areas made things worse.

The one guy I know who is a lifelong benefit claimer is doing better than any of us. I don't blame him, I blame the system that allows it to happen.

*this is also a really bad plan when it comes to health stuff, prescriptions, dental etc..
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 06 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


The criteria for employment should be whether they are a net tax contributor in my view but that's never going to happen.



Free tax threshold is £11,500

Minimum wage is £7.83/hr, so allowing for working 47 weeks/year, thats 31.25 hours per week, which would basically preclude any form of part time work, since many full time contracts are 35. Based on the income distribution from 2015/16 financial year, 4% of the working population earn less than this and therefore contribute no tax.

There is a huge difference between a mother who chooses to work 16 hours a week whilst the kids are at school, and someone who wants to work full time and cant find a job and is therefore trying to earn a full time wage on a contract with no guaranteed hours IMHO and both fall within that band.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 01:13 - 15 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many tax breaks do you take advantage of as a 'businessman'?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 08 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Shelter claims the government would save £60bn over 30 years if it can make renting cheaper' Pass the popcorn
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M.C
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 08 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Quote:
England 'needs millions of homes to solve housing crisis'


Or controlled immigration, which would be a lot easier and not fuck up the quality of life of the indigenous population, put less stress on public services, health and education, plus going by the ethnicity of many news stories, reduce crime.

If you're in debt and spiralling out of control, is the answer to borrow more or curb spending? Tackle the source of the problem not the end result.

If we stopped all immigration now, we'd still having a housing shortage, how would you solve that?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 08 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
M.C wrote:

If we stopped all immigration now, we'd still having a housing shortage, how would you solve that?


Actually making an effort to deport the millions who shouldn't even be here in the first place. Bring in ID cards, then go to every Kebab shop, Indian restaurant, Chinese restaurant and takeaways, mini-cab firm and hotel and ask to see ID. Those without ID get arrested and processed.

Wasn't the figure alone for Grenfell supposed to be around 100 illegals?


If only it were that easy.

First we'd need a government that properly funds its public services, including the Home Office. There aren't enough police to do their daily beat, let alone immigration enforcement.

Hilarious that Theresa May's answer was to send those vans all over the place instead.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/files/2013/08/Immigration-van.jpg

It must be great being an illegal in the UK at the moment. Chances of being caught by an actual existing enforcement officer are tiny.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 08 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering when we do get tough we tend to f**k it up, the Windrush saga for example, I wouldn't have much faith in the government achieving that either.
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