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| MarJay |
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MarJay
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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Kentol750
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qarka
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MarJay
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 Posted: 14:47 - 20 Nov 2018  Post subject: |
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Kentol750
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 18:01 - 20 Nov 2018  Post subject: |
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| Nobby the Bastard wrote: | Why in gods name would you buy a 125 when you have a full license? |
Perversity
| adam277 wrote: | 125ccs are not that bad Teflon-Mile likes them. |
See above.
| adam277 wrote: | I joined this forum in 2012 and I have only just finished reading a single post of his about a CB 125 twin.  |
Finish it.... you obviousely didn't get the message lol
| adam277 wrote: | I remember him saying something like time on a tiddler is rarely wasted or something similar. |
It's not.. but advice is mostly to learners, and the bit you missed is that a 'tiddler' doesn't have to be under 125cc... just not suffering a bike not suffering a surfit of power or weight... an Enfiled could come into that remit!!!
Oh-Kay... for starters, there is a Learner-Loading on 125's.
INSURANCE.. often the most expensive part of running a bike £-per-mile, can be as much, per year as the cost of the bike. My Seven-Fifty, same value, same storage, same security, same riders, costs about 50% LESS to insure each year than the 125 Super-Dream.... That's the learner-loading.
Real figures; I have the luxuary of old-duffer insurance, own-home, and a long licence history. The 'old' Seven-Fifty costs about £100 a year to insure, the 125-Super-Dream, like-for-like about £150.
Tax? I 'save' perhaps, £75 on, depending on the tax-man's budget that year.. it sort of pays the extra on the insurance.. but in the grander scheme, it really dont go too far.
Fuel? Well, depends how far I go, and how much of a hooligan I am feeling. Book MPG means little, and perversely, riding the 125, with limited power, I am prone to be more of a hooligan on it, and not get 'best' fuel ecconomy from the off. Practically there's little in it, and I 'reckon' very roughly, that I get 'about' 70mpg from either. Book, for the Seven-Fifty suggests it should return 45-50, for the 125, 90-100... as said, what the book says means little.
Tyres? Again, depends on how far I go. Tyres for the Seven-Fidty cost in XS of £200 a pair, for 'reasonable' rubber. Cost about £90 for 'good' rubber for the 125... and they last, probably longer than I will, where they dont on the Seven-Fifty.
Major service spares are much the same; brake pads depend on how reactive you are on them; dang site cheaper to replace one pair in the front of the 125 though, than a pair on the Seven-Fifty, and on the light-weight likely last longer 'cos they dont have so much mass to scrubb speed off. Chain & Sprockets similar.
And so it goes on.... BUT.... in the big-bag? The 'Ecconomy' isn't to be found in the buyers-guides, its to be found in the rider....
The perversity of the 125, is that I not only can, but pretty much HAVE to ride the thing full-on to get it to get anywhere in anything like real-time. It's demanding, its rewarding, it is a perverse sort of 'fun'... sensible it is not.
The Seven-Fifty? With an excess of power and weight, its a lot more relaxed and easier to ride. It's not so much 'fun' even riding it like a complete tool, where I am almost NEVER going to get near its limitations, with the exces of ooomph to pretty much go as fast as I am prepared to risk life and licence.... and that is with a mere 75bhp and 200Kg for it to haul about....
Around town? I used to think that trying to man-handle that much mass was a chore compared to almost half that on the 125, BUT, a few journeys of recent years, made me re-appraise, and it's more swings-and-round-abouts, and it's again, probably NOT so much the bike, as the rider, and attitude.
| adam277 wrote: | Maybe but I don't know a decent mechanic and I've put at least £800 in the thing in the past year and it's still shit. Also it really is a POS. |
There-in possibly lies the major gripe, and the problem.
| adam277 wrote: | got quoted like £150-200 for forks seals |
I'd DIY for under £50, in a Sunday afternoon. New forks seals are about £10, a couple of litres of fork oil, maybe £20... and it wouldn't matter whether that time and money was chucked at the Seven-Fifty or the 125.
As to how long they'd last? Again, swings and round-abouts. 750 more likely to hammer them with its weight... 125 more likely to be hammered riding that much more reactively, and on lighter grade mechanics.
| adam277 wrote: | cracked engine case may pass MOT if not then appartently that will cost like 300 to fix |
Dats a problem
On a CB500 shit-heap, I probably wouldn't bother. A take-out engine, would probably be cheaper than a tear-down and even second hand cases. Another working bike, probably cheaper still, and a heck lot less work.
This would, as a 'daily' have me pretty much convinced it was a scrapper, and preparing the e-bay add as a 'spares or repairs project' and almost all else pretty redundnant.
| adam277 wrote: | Headlight mount held together will zip-ties |
No biggie, really; Second hand bits from a breakers, or even after-market head-lamp stays of the bag for a few £, and a leisurely sunday afternoon untabgling and WD40in the wiring that lurks in there doing 'preventative' maintenance.
| adam277 wrote: | no guard for the chain pretty sure that is MOT required |
Depends on the tester's 'interpretation' of the regs. But again, not a huge job, with a 2nd hand bit from a breakers, and, or even just, some bits of tin bent to make a guard riveted or bolted wherever convenient on the swing-arm.
There would be bigger fish to fry in this list!
| adam277 wrote: | rear brake caliper [ideally need a new one] or it rebuilding no idea how much that will cost. |
One of the niggly little jobs, I 'like' doing, inside, in the warm. New seals and even a new piston and a lot of care and attension, probably going to town with new gromets and float-pins, new pads and lots of coppa-slip, even a new hose... errr... 'around' £15 for new seals, £25 for new piston; I'd completely overhaul for as much as a 2nd hand e-bay caliper that probably needs overhauling anyway. But stiull rather small-fry in the grander scheme.
| adam277 wrote: | Also the thing is a rusty POS no idea how much of that will be a issue for the MOT. |
A little rust around teh shock mounts on the Seven-Fifty gave me the same notion... taking off the seat and cowling and tackkling with wire brush and hamerite took me to a full tear down... where do you stop? BUT.... £15 for a can of hammerite? £2 for a wire brush, time and effort.. its not a hard or expensive job... just a ball-ache! And is it a big enough fish to be fretting over?
| adam277 wrote: | MOT runs out for it APRIL 2019 and I will keep using it until it dies on me so I'm not rushing into buying something else I'm just preparing. |
And there;s your bottom line.... you have a tag-end-of-life scrap-heap refugee, its not unreliable because of its size, its unreliable because you and umpety owners before you, have all tried to run it on a shoe-string, and not done the 'maintenance' it really needs... and as last-man-in-line, you get the make or break point when it cant be bodged any further....
THAT was pretty much where I bought the Seven-Fifty a decade and a half ago, on the principle it was just a stop-gap, to run completely into the ground until the MOT expired, and then scrap... with 'maybe' the idea of making a rolling project bike from it, IF I could keep it going a bit.... Bit of DIY and it lasted almost a decade, refusing to die, and then biting the bullet, got a complete tear-down... when I was chasing that 'rust; around the rear shock-mounts! Rational, was that the bike, as a vehicle wouldn't be worth what I sunk into it... BUT, for what I spent, I'd not get anything with as much life in it as I paid... and so it still refuses to die....
BUT only so long as I DIY and dont pay a mechanic, or try penny pinching not doing stuff that should be done.
There-in lies your dilemah.....
Buy brand-new... yeah, aught to have a lot of life in it from the off... BUT you pay for it, maybe not up-front, but if you finance, in the 30% or more extra you pay in credit charges, and more still in the rapid new-bike depreciation.... moment you wheel it out the show-room, its a second hand bike, and even without run-in mileage on the clock, its worh perhaps only 25% of what you likely didn't pay upfront..... And it will still need maintenance, and the less you give it, more the depreciation will be in 3 years time.
Buy small... it's still the same deal... new bike will be worth a pittance of what you or finance co paid, soon as you swing a leg over it on the road.
Advantage of a 125, is that Learner-Legal;, they DO tend to hold value a 'bit' better, and selling mostly to folk that dont have a licence or much of a clue about bikes, they do tend to sell fairly easily...
Flashy 125's, though will sell better to folk that want flashy, but who cant afford the flash of a brand new one, and more expensive new to start with, they tend to depreciate even faster than the hum-drum 'sensible' offerings.. which bought on a budget to begin with, tend to suffer the dire lack of maintenance in abundance.
Buying 'new' would to some extend dodge that potial, and give you better re-sale chances... BUT, add the learner loading of insurance, add the fact that they DO trend to demand more frequent maintenence, it's back to swings and round-abouts, and IF you are paying for not just paid-mechanics, but main-stealer mechanics, to keep the service book stamped and the resale 'up'? You are likely to be paying through the nose for stuff along the way, making this one NOT very cheap bike to own.
250/300 big-tiddlers? Absolute mine-field. Not many about, and the market is harsh. We ran the numbers on a CBR250, a few years ago for Snowie as every-day post-test commuter. With 0% finance scheme, it did look atractive, BUT, from day one, she'd have owed more than she owned, and chasing the credit, it wouldn't be until the finance plan was run out that the situiation would swap around... and even then, at end of finance period, bike would be worth a) effall, and b) be hard to sell on...
2nd hand, some absolute steals about, cos folk with licence to ride'em dont often want 'em... but bought as low-cost every-day comuters they oft suffer low-rent maintenance and neglect as badly as many 125's
A-N-D we are back to the swings and round-abouts....
You want bus-fare beating commuter wheels?
Well, in the big-bag, that season ticket PROBABLY is hard to beat.
At college, though; there's only around 30 teching weeks a year, and you oft dont have to go in every-day anyway; so paying for a season-ticket, that could let you travel every-day 50 weeks of the year you probably are paying twice as much as other commuters, and not getting 'best' value. But check out student or young person subsidy or discount cards, might make it more affordable.
But, that big bag; catching the bus; Oh-Kay you dont get to go door-to-door, you may have to walk a few yards either end; you may have to hang around, probably in the cold and wet for the bus to turn up, BUT, that 'waste-of-time' can seem magnified as you aren't doing anything, and forgotten, compared to the time you have to spend filling your own fuel tank, tensioning your chain, taking bike for service... A-N-D, you dont have to fret about finding insurance, or the bus being nicked! Its a very economical one-stop pay-as-you-go solution to things, that DOES take some beating, IF you look at that big-bag...
What we come back to, as your main gripe, IS that you are currently running a tag-end-of-life, scrap-heap refugee old bike, and lacking mechanic ability paying through the nose for some-one lense to do the work you cant or wont, and then, moaning about the price..... and looking at snap-shots of that bag, trying to kid yourself that buying brand new, is a wonderful idea....
Back to that CBR250 'plan' for Snowie; resale prices was still a bit in question as A2 licences were looming, and likely to put up the value of native eligible A2 bikes... and in the last five years, yeah, they have... a bit, but the quality of them is still questionable, and so is long term value. Meanwhile, it was only even remotely ecconomical, and DID potentially offer to beat-bus-fares because her job would have begged three bus-rides a day, with two different bus companies.... throughout the 5 year credit term, she would have mostly owed more than she owned, and at the end, had a bike, hopefully IF leaving it in the same car-park every day didn't see it nicked and owing more on the HP than they would pay-out... be warned... but at end of term... on bag, she would have only 'just' been ahead 'maybe' to the 2nd hand value of the bike... if she could sell it easily enough...
SO... take it from the top, and look at the WHOLE picture, not just the pretty bits or the bits that make you feel good.
You have an old junker... which great, IF you can do the work other folk aren't prepared to.. it CAN be a very cheap way to get about.. IF you are sensible, and realistic in expectations, and keep in mind the £ that blow away every time you open the throttle or dive on the brakes... no matter how big the fire hole in the engine may-be.
If you DONT want to get your hands oily, and DIY your own maintenance... well, paid mechanics cost. And on a brand new bike, at a main-stealers cost a LOT! Interest charges also add up fast, these are NOT wonderful ways to 'eccomimise' or stretch your travel budget to get the most of your chosen form of transport.
And ask it oh-so-often, but, what's more important... Toy or Transport?
One rarely 'pays' for the other....
For alomost ALL my 40 years riding, bike has significantlyt been 'Toy' not transport. I started when I was just 7 years old, and progresed to school-boy trials before I was old enough to legally ride on the public-road. As such, the cost of buying, and running a bike, has been costed against other 'leisure' activities, like fishing, or golf, or going down the pub...
The Seven-Fifty? Here and now, costs me about £250 a year in 'over-heads' tax, insurance and MOT; for around 3ooo miles a year, costs about as much again, in fuel and odds and sods of maintenance, and 'depreciation' is long gone thing of the past!.. BUT that's about £10 a week... which down t'pub, might just about get me one round in! And so THAT is how I have to look at it. Its cheaper as 'toy' than two pints a week, down t'pub!
As transport? Well, the Honda Chavic has just been scrapped. But last in long line of banger-nomics; it wound up on my drive-way in some family car shuffling, but I 'think' I notionally paid about £500 for it. It cost about £300 a year to insure; it cost, err.. £150 a year to tax? And I spent, maybe £200 a year come its MOT on things like exhausts, batteries, brake pads and tyres... to do almost 10ooo miles a year in... warm, dry, and listening to the sterio! There's a few others behind that, and I think that the best documented is probably my XR2 over twenty years ago, which ISTR I calculated was less pennies per mile than my VF-Thou... just... about 20p a mile or there-abouts. I could have cought the train to work, I think that the fare was about £3 return, so, £15 a week, £750 a year, where car or bike, cost me more like £2K.. almost 3x as much... A-N-D... the bike or car was just 'there' it wasn't just 10K a year getting to and from work, more got added popping to the shop, rather than walking, or heading off to wales for the week-end, or going a hundred miles to a party....
The 'Toy' and or the 'convenience' ultimately meant that I travelled as far as budget would stretch, NOT save any money... A-N-D that is the big pit-fall of ANY personal transport... its there, its easy, its fun, you use it, until the pennies bite. Public transport... quite likely 'cheaper' to start with, and less convenient or fun, you tend NOT to use it unless you really need to, so you 'can' see real cash saving in your pocket, if that's the imperative here.
Really, its all ways of skinning the cat... a-n-d back to top; its YOU that will deturmine how expensive it is to get to and from college... NOT the vehicle that takes you!
That travel-pass though does stick a stake in thr ground to judge other ways about by.... A-N-D, I pay panuts for old duffer, leisure only insurance to run the Seven-Fifty... as said, costs me 'about' £500 a year, to do about 3ooo miles.... that's 100 miles a week of college calender, barely 10 miles each way a day. Upping the cover to include commuting, and the extra miles; adding the extra maintenance, mostly DIY, it wouldn't take long, evben for me, paying pittance insurance, before that £2K a term bus-pass poroved the cheapest way to tech...
CB125F? Currently £2829, on 3year 6.9% 3year finance deal at Honda. That's roughly £1000 a year, or £250 a month.. just to have the privilidge of ownbing that 'new' bike.
At 3 years old, with fresh MOT, it might be worth, £2ooo, more likely less. But, that means that renting that bike for 3 years will have cost you £1000 a year, JUST in credit and depreciation... Add insurance? Before you put fuel in the thing, let alone pay the tax, let alone buy new tyres, brake pads of take it back the dealers to get the service book stamped.... you are, likely spending more money, before you even start, JST so that you dont have to hang around a wet and windy street corner twice a day, let alone before you start cranking up them convenience or fun miles.
This is NOT a plan to 'save' money.. this is a plan to SPEND money....
IF you can afford it; IF you 'value' the pleasure you get for that extra money, then fair-play... we all have our vices... and they tend to cost... BUT dont kid yourself, or any-one else that this is an 'ecconomy' measure.
Play the perms and cons on the scenario; look at second hand bikes rather than new; look at cheaper bikes; look at more ecconomical ones... however you try cut it up, in all likelihgood, it will in-bag cost you more for almost ANY form of 'personal-transport' than taking the bus... even if you dont amplify that with convenience or leisure miles.... but it your money.. I could spent 3x the cost of the Seven-Fifty each year on the fees to go dangle a bit of string in some water tryi9ng to outwit a creature with no brain, or loose a plastic ball down a rabbit hole.. if you have the money, why not? IF not, then how much is unrealistic ambition, and shouldn't you cut cloth to suit your means?
Your call... but REALLY how new and shiney the bike may be, how big the hole where fire happens in its engine, WONT make a huge difference here, and working on presumption that newer and smaller 'has' to be cheaper than the bus, is just building falecy on delusion built on falecy... YOU deturmine how much it goning to cost, in your mind set and aproach, and gow much you wring the things neck along the way....
Bottom line is, you makes your choices and pays your money.. and its your money (Or promice of future monies!) not ours... deal with the facts how you wish... but dont kid yourself that that annual travel pass is 'expensive' or that the bus/train, inherently less convenient...
Me? Well, I would struggle to beat that bus-fare price with almost anything. Even the Seven-Fifty, and its peanuts a year running costs, when I added +Commuting to the insurance, and started sticking in full tanks of fuel twice a week, and fretting about new tyres a couple of times a year.. and even the 125 would be tight. And in both cases, even DIYing my own maintenence, I'd struggle to beat bus-fares... so how much 'value' in owning personal transport for the job? How many £ a year is THAT worth to you 'just; to be able to crank them convcenience miles and lesire miles when and where you like.. and spend MORE money, in the doing of them?
For real miser miler commuter, I would probably have to say that something like an old Honda CD200 benley or Two-Fifty night-hawk, probably stands the best chance of the miles per £... but mostly ONLY because I would as simply NOT want to ride the thing any more than I had to... and it would probably STILL be touch and go if I could actually see any real-world saving over the bus...and I would almost certainly not be keeping my hands clean to do it, having to DIY my own maintenance and repairs, and juyst one or two trips to the paid-for mechanics, even a 'cheap' independent, would soon blunt any saving I really DIDN'T expect to find... benefits woyuld almost certainly be confined to the convenience of not having to catch a bus to town to get to the train station to get a train where I wanted to go, and another bus t'other end, standing on wet and windy street corners, sitting in drafty waiting rooms... but on the other hand... wouldn't have to fret about the bus being nicked, or falkling off, and I could kill time in the nice warn collece library rather than the waiting room, or even read my books on the bus.. as said, swings and round-abouts.
But back up... do you really need or just WANT personal transport.. then, coldly and critically do the sums on the scenarios... its unlikely ANY personal transport solution will pay for itself against the bus-pass, so how much 'toy' do you want, and MIGT you get off the back of the 'transport' price.... but be warned... a mule is a mule... and more compromises you squeeze in to get something out, more of a mule it will likely be...
And JUST as another pegg in the ground... for TOY, ponder how much fun you could have on whatever difference there is between public vs personal transport....
Brand new CB125m likely to cost you at least £1000 a year in depreciation and credit... probably double that in maintenence and fuel, more likely 3x that.... so you 'might' NOT buying a bike, save around £1000 a year... given the choice... would riding to college, day in, day out, in wet and wind, dodging sycopathic cagers, REALLY offer £1000 aorth of fun... how much does it cost to go on a 10 day club-med holiday to trance-land these days? And how much FUN would something like that give you in comparison for the cash? Look at that big picture and DONT try kidding yourself, that just cos a bike got littler engine, it must be more ecconomical, or that becaue its newer and shinier its bound top need less looking after, OR that any personal transport is going to be any more likely to be there, when you want it, than a bus is!!!
Your call... BUT... bottom line here seems to be that the biggest grip is the cost of a paid mechanic.... so either you get rid and leave that sort of chit to the bus company, or you learn to weild spanners.... and a POS CB500 with cracked carank-cased DOES seem like a good way to do that!!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Posted: 20:40 - 21 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Thieves all need to be killed. |
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| Posted: 10:54 - 22 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Posted: 13:10 - 30 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| Posted: 20:32 - 30 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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It's not just that though.
Clueless fucking Millenials don't know how to look after a two stroke or that they need oil adding to a tank or alternatively mixing with the fuel.
Then there's the unreliability of tuned two stroke engines, not so reassuring for a daily commuter that you use to get to your night shifts on time etc. A plodder like a CG125 sounds very appealing after your Aprilia has holed it's 2nd piston in 3months and cost you a couple of hours missed wages etc.
But the biggest reason that people don't commute on two strokes is running costs and guilt over the pollution and environmental impact of them. You generally see car drivers looking at you like your severely mentally retarded for riding a horrible tinny sounding bike that stinks and is billowing great big clouds of blue smoke everywhere causing everyone else to close their windows and call you a cunt with a broken bike.
Oh and not many office people probably get positive comments or admired for walking round all day stinking of partially burnt Silkolene either. 
One of the joys of working on a building site is that this isn't a problem, and you can leave your Stihl going 'ting ting ting' while you wonder off for a cuppa.  |
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| ThatDippyTwat |
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ThatDippyTwat
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Joined: 07 Aug 2016
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| Posted: 21:04 - 30 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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| stevo as b4 wrote: | Clueless fucking Millenials don't know how to look after a two stroke or that they need oil adding to a tank or alternatively mixing with the fuel |
This. So much this.
I really want another RS125, but Every. Single. One. I have looked at locally has major issues. Bottom end noises and nastiness seem to be a recurring theme. I don't mind a bit of a project, but most of these need a total motor rebuild, at a minimum. I also learned that "Top end rebuilt" actually means, "yeah mate, never got round to it, here's a shit ebay piston kit". I was really cheesed off, as the bodywork was lovely, I'd taken the cash out, rode 40 miles to see it with every intention of buying it and riding it home, my mate was going to ride the VFR back.
The thing they all have in common? Not one seller over 25, all of them in otherwise neglected condition (tryes bald, brakes gummy etc), bar the one mentioned above. Largely given up on the idea now. Anything decent is either miles away, or less fun than an equivalent 4T for the same price.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine) |
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| Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 146 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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