Questions about test?

[tara1234]

Hey so im thinking of taking the a1 test without special training once I reach 2000 miles as I think I may have a chance at passing riding defensivly.

However one thing I do wrong is I put my right foot down and pop the bike into nuetral. I need to put my right foot down to pop the bike into first.

I can do the left foot down if I hold the throttle in while in first gear. So wondering if they are going to fail me on either putting my right foot down or holding the clutch in.

Putting left foot down I can get it into nuetral if I time it correctly, but when I start off I find it hard to kick the bike down and maintain balance while starting off. If I have my right foot down I just kick down and go and its stable.

Ill be doing my test on my Yamaha sr 125 skipping the school as cant afford das.

[ThatDippyTwat]

You don't *need* to put it in neutral, You can keep it in first and hold the clutch in unless you know you'll be stationary for a while.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[ThunderGuts]

I think as long as you’re in control it’s fine. Stop left foot down then hold front brake while switching feet to knock it into neutral. I think they’d expect you to be constantly applying a brake (either) while stationary both to prevent rolling but also as a visual cue to following traffic.

As said above though, it’s perfect ok to leave it in 1st - preferable even in some ways as it’s one less thing to worry about and means when traffic shows signs of moving, you can use those seconds for observations rather than getting it back in 1st.
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TG.

[Ste]

I wouldn't be confident about passing either test riding how you've described.

With more practice you'll get used to clicking into neutral as you're coming to a stop and putting into into first gear when you're pulling away.

[tara1234]

ok so should be ok putting both feet down then.

[Ste]

Left foot down, right foot on the rear brake.

[tara1234]

ok so should be ok putting both feet down then.

[Ste]

Left foot goes down, right foot stays on the footpeg covering your rear brake.

[Teflon-Mike]

Lets do the Cardington-Clog-Dance... all together now....

The CCD, is the laborious proceduralised prescription for stopping and starting, as laid down in the earlier versions of road-craft and only recently removed on edit... because it was a load of mostly unecessary and often impractical polava... more on that later.

On test; the examiner 'now' has you start in the car-park, which doesn't necessarily make matters any easier than in my day when you were probably parked at the kerb outside a council office... but, the examiner would as you to "Position your machine at the edge of the road, ready to pull onto the carriageway".. it was a trick command.. take note, they aren't much more transparent these days....

The typical rider, looks at their bike, on the side stand by the kerb; they walk over to it, key in hand, throw thier leg over, put the key in, and start the engine, then start to paddle the thing backwards and forewards to where they want it, probably trying to back into the flow of traffic..... and almost before they have begun, given the examiner umpety opportunities if not to 'fail' them, at least to give demerits.

NEVER 'paddle' from the saddle, paddling is something we do at the beach on a sunny day, NOT on a motorbike. IF you need to move the bike, GET OFF, so it like you were tought in the very first hands on bit of CBT.... and its there in the Mod-1 too, as almost the first excersise, wheeling the bike in and out of pretend parking spaces.

This is where there is quite a lot of difference between learning to ride a motorbike, and learning to pass a motorbike test.....

Top Tip.... if bums NOT on saddle, Keys not in ignition... if the kets in the ignition, whether engine on or not, the 'rider' must be in charge and in control of the vehicle; if you are not correctly 'seated' you aint... so remember, ket in lock, bum on saddle, bum not on saddle, ket out the lock!

Right... SO... you do the maneuvering bit, with your bum OFF the saddle... so key stays out the lock..... manouver bike to where you intend to pull away from; mount machine; Adopt 'Safety Position... that is, left foot down, right foot on the peg, covering, and if needed applying back-brake.... NOW you can put the ket in the lock, and think about starting the engine...

At this point, left foot, is down... and to move, you need to select a gear, SO you need to 'reverse' the safety position. Right foot-down, left foot up... using the front brake if needs be to hold bike stationary, eg on a slope.

Engage gear. Re-Adopt Safety postion, reversing footing, so left back down, right back up....

Now you can do your rear observations, etc, and if safe to pull away, do so.... getting the left foot up of the floor and planted on the peg ASAP, as soon as you are moving.... my mantra 'neet-feet', they are up or they are down, not flapping ion the breeze or 'hovering' cos you aren't too sure of stuff.

Great, your away... now you are pulling up to a T-Junction.

CCD says, you do NOT clog down to neutral or first before you stop; you slow in 2n'd, clutch in at the last moment to remove drive... Left foot down, in the 'safety-position'....

This is awkward... because you want to engage neutral if you are going to be at the stop for any time, and you will need first again to pull away.....

BUT having stopped, in 2nd and Safety-Poss.... you do this Cardington-Clog-Dance... reverse footing, selecting neutral for the wait, and reverse footing again, to wait..... then again, to select first when you see you have a 'safe' oportunity to pull away/

Like I said, its clunky, its cumbersome, its laboriouse and its almost NEVER 'the best' way about things.... But that is how it was described in the book, that's how the Police bikers were tought and expected to do things, and it filtered down over the decades.....

In it's defence... The Police-Bike of many decades was a BMW Boxer twin, that has the crank-shaft pointing for-and-aft in the frame, rather than side to side, making them 'rock' under torque reaction as you rev them, they also have a rather 'course' car type, single plate paddle clutch, and sitting for any length of time trying to hold one of them in makes your left knuckles go white and your fingers go numb.... hence, the attempt to NOT sit holding the clutch in... it is NOT good form, because, its only you holding that lever and the gubbins between that and the clutch stopping the bike move. In days of yore clutch cables were NOT all that tough, and nipples were noted for falling off the end, and they would likely do that when you were trying to hold the clutch 'in' after stopping... there's also the danger that your hand will slip off the lever, or some pedestrian seeng stopped traffic will nudge you as they walk past, and ooops... bike wheelies into the cross-wise traffic and you have a muti-car pile up going on around you, if your not lucky, and the bike just stalls...

So there IS sense and reason behind the CCD... but on modern bikes with much lighter multi-plate clutches, its not 'so' important, they don't take the brute force to hold 'in' like they used to, and err... cable quality 'should' be better... but they do still fail, and pedestrians can still nudge you... so it's still not the 'best' practice.

Anyways... that is the way the book was written... and even though, its rather clunky and laboriouse, and many coppas and instructors and advanced riders did it that way, it IS often done more to show the precision and discipline in their riding, than for much real advantage....

BUT, before you throw it away, at least undertand it, and realise WHY you aren't doing it that way, if you dont.

Main thing about it is that it is so clunky, and unless you really practice it to make it second nature, you'll be sat at junctions looking for a gap, and they'll have gone by the time you have got a gear!!!

SO... you 'adapt' the script.

First and formost; remember the 'Safety-Position'.. if your not moving, then left down, right in peg covering back brake.

Slowing for a junction... remember the dont-rush mantra, and dont over shift, to start with.

If you dont go 'up' gears you dont need to come back down them... ride for response, use the revs not the gears; Now if you heed that bit of advice, you will probably only ever be in 4th gear infrequently on faster roads, using 3rd as the mother-of-all-work ratio for almost everything in 30-40 limits, and NOW you only need come down ONE cog, aproaching a junction, be it a roundabout, lights or T..

You now have PLENTY of time, to make your changes and not crash through cogs, loose copunt or get in a tangle.

Approaching the junction in 2nd, you also have the flexibility oin the throttle that you DONT necessarily need stop.... time your arival at the give way to co-incide with your gap, you slow, you slow, you reach the line, you throttle on and pull away, in one move, without ANY feet down.... no feet down, CCD is not in issue.....

IF you have to stop... THEN you can do it in 2nd, and IF you have stopped, you STILL dont need to 'rush' to get it into neutral or first... if you have to rush it... you had time to not stop! So... you can pull up, left foot down in safety, reverse-foot, sort your gears, and resume safety, once to get first to pull away, if you have judged you need not be sat long, or are happy to hold the clutch 'in'. Twice, if you are going to select neutral whilst you wait and let blood get to your fingers!

THERE'S NO RUSH... if you have to rush, you din effed up somewhere.

But, the key is in the planning, and the smoothness, and that means head-0up, looking up the road, predicing whats going to happen, planning what you need do, and making the time to do it in, rather than riding reactively, not having a plan, wither because you dont know whats going to happen, or you aren't confident your judgements right, and trying to keep options open....

BUT, the answer is, this is a key-skill.... by the time you are ready for test, it should be second nature, and you should be assuming the safety position, and reversing as required to select neutral or 1st, almost instinctively and without though.....

A-N-D if you have to think about it.... you got problems.... cos you will probably do something OTHER than what you normally do every day without thinking, trying to do what you 'think' the examiner wants to see you do, not what you do. Consequently you will NOT show the examiner how you DO ride.... you will show them something completely different, and they wont be 'fooled' that its what you normally do.

And if there is ONE bit of advice for taking motorbike tests... that is probably it.... You turn up, and ride like you normally do... DONT suddenly try doing things different cos its test! Show them what you do... if it right, or at least good enough, they give you a pass... if it AINT they tell you whats wrong with it, and you go away, do as they advice, make it habbit, go try again.

Try putting on a 'show' for the examiner.... its just that a show... and they see umpety hundred shows a month, they know a genuine ride when they see it, and if they cant fail a 'show-ride' for any specific error, they will fail it under any of the scope they have for judgement...

Relax, do what you NORMALLY do.... and just go with it.

You pass, you pass, you fail, they tell you why... do different next time round... BUT you keep it tidy, you keep it confident, you keep it LEGAL and you keep it in obviouse control, and remember things like the observations, absolutely NO reason you need fail.

90% of fails are not because the riders inherently bad... its because they are nervous and unconfident, and DONT do what they normally do.....


BUT the CCD polava as it is, IS the prescribed way about stop-start feet downs, and is as good a model as we got.

Simplifying it any; yes you CAN hold the clutch in, if you want when stopped; but trying to get neutral before you stop? Bad move, technically if you succeed you are 'coasting' and without drive you are not inc control. Clunking first before stop? Tends to be clunky, especially as if you snick 1st early, you will get an enormouse amount of engine braking, the revs will go sky high, as the bike almost locks up, and you will STILL have yards to travel before you stop... OR you will have to leave it late, and 'rush' and it will still be clunky and jerky, and in either case IF you have time and need to come down to first before you stop.... you have time to some to rest in 2nd, safety, revers, select 1st, and reverse again into the safety... neatly, smoothly and without making undue problems for yourself elsewhere.

That 'bit' of the CCD is NOT a great pain or chore....

So... slow in 2nd, if you have to stop, stop in 2nd. Reverse foot, sort gears, re-assume safety.... practice it, get in the habit of it, and make it second nature NOW before it becomes an issue on test or something you even think to think about.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[stevo as b4]

CCD? WTF? I presume you mean the Hendon dance which is how I've always heard it referred to, named after the Police training school down there.

OP, sit on your bike in the garage and practice your coming to a stop, your going to click into neutral before you put your left foot down and sit in the safe position brake on. Then practice the lights are about to change green and your going to pop the bike in gear, and get back on the brake ready to launch.

When your happy, try it in a car park several times and then on a route with lots of traffic lights like a ring road or entrance to a retail park etc.

Its no different to being a proper car driver and not having your foot on the brake constantly in traffic. The safest time and place to be in a car is hand brake on, transmission in neutral. The same applies to riding a bike if you look at it that way.

[Ste]

Hendon shuffle.

The only mentions of anything to do with Cardington Clog are on BCF.

I'm guessing there where Teffers used to be a CBT guy was near the Cardington test centre?

[Kentol750]

I'm not that far from Bedford, and I've never heard anyone use or referred to anything other than 'the Hendon shuffle'!
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Some bikes.

[DVSA Derek]

Don't over think it or let people over complicate it. It's simple..

If you are arriving at a junction or stopping for a moment, slip the bike into first just before you stop, whilst bringing the bike to a stop with the rear brake - for the final slow part of the stop. So, when the bike stops your foot is already on the rear brake, the bike is in first and you are ready to go. As you stop, you have no more work to do with your left foot as the bike is in first, so put it down. Then you are fully ready to go again.

If you are stopping for any length of time, if you are getting instructions or something, just stop in the normal way and click the bike into neutral. It is preferable to cover the rear brake and support the bike on your left foot. But, don't over complicate it.

It is perfectly acceptable, indeed preferable to have the bike in first gear just before you stop as there are many junctions, roundabouts and traffic situations where you may 'hover' or do a 'rolling emerge' meaning the bike needs to be in first. The idea of not slipping into first before you stop is a nonsense. You are more likely to pick up faults if you continually arrive at junctions and roundabouts etc where you stop before you select first, when the situation shows that you could have kept the bike moving.
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It's just a job. Don't hold it against me!

[stevo as b4]

So it absolutely wouldn't be a case of Teffsperg making up a new phrase of his own to quote as a Gospel self proclaimed authority to anyone new or daft enough to listen?

I need to stop reading the new bikers and workshop sections really, as that's where alot of the verbal diahorea on BCF lurks I'd say.

[pinkyfloyd]

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Ste]

Is it not preferable to having to do the CBT again?

That and not being on L plates means you're less likely to become deaded.

[tara1234]

its annoying not being able to use motorways (even in truck lane at 55-60 ish mph) as some of the main a roads have chunks turned into motorways. A1 is the main one i know of.

Also wanna carry passengers so need a full license for that. In regards to bigger bikes, iv heard that some 125s such as yzf r125 can reach 80 so thats enough for motorways using the fast lanes.

Im thinking of trying this without training cos itl only cost me about £100 as apposed to about £750+ for full das training.

[Kentol750]

Do it. Theory pass and less than a good night out. 125s may reach 80mph, its the l plates that slow them down. Nothing wrong with doing a1 test. But. That's. It. 125.
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Some bikes.

[M.C]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Ste]

On motorways you want to be able to go slightly faster than the big articulated lorry that's right behind you.

80 to 90 is the cruising speed in the outside lane for lots of people and it's preferable to not be completely flat out. I'd be happy enough on a derestricted two stroke but even then, it's not ideal.

I recall from other threads that OP has lots of experience cycling on roads and riding a CG125 on a motorway should have less near death experiences than cycling on duel carriageways or in rush hour.

If you're wanting to do much motorway riding and or carrying pillions then you're going to be wanting a bigger bike than a 125. Get an A1 license and sooner or later you're going to want to spend money upgrading to a full A license so if you can do the DAS now then that would be the way to go. The only reasons to do an A1 license is for financial reasons and as an alternative to re doing the CBT after two years of wobbling around on L plates.

[pinkyfloyd]

[andym]

Why not just buy a cheap 500-600cc bike, get it insured, get a mate that's been riding for years to teach you (if you get stopped just act dumb, you thought it worked the same as with car instructors ).

Book theory - £25
Practice Mod 1 maneuvers in quiet car park
Book Mod 1 - £16
Book Mod 2 - £90


That's what I done anyway... £175 for an old 600 diversion, insured on provisional for £180, went out and rode with friends several times, practiced slow control in a car park, had 3 lessons (second was on way to Mod 1, third was on way to Mod 2), after failing Mod 2 the first time I got a friend to ride with me to the test centre and passed.

[ThatDippyTwat]

Irrespective of licenses, You don't want to ride a 125 on a motorway. You may think you do, but first time you actually do, you very suddenly wont want to.

If you absolutely must ride on motorways, find a cheap A/A2 course, *LISTEN* to your instructor, make the most of the time you are paying for. You don't know it all, you will fuck up, and that's why you're having lessons. Practice what they say as much as you can on your own bike.

As for pillions, my 10yr old daughter prefers pillion on the 125 (it has a little sissy bar), and though it's 'full power', same as the R125, it's horribly slow with even a kid on the back. I don't like going in NSL's because you get someone stuck rght up your chuff, let alone attempting a motorway. You're needlessley endangering both yourself and your pillion.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)