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At last, Police actually doing something right

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piazza
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was that the guy with the rucksack? I thought he looked more like an innocent that was horrified at being knocked off cos he dindu it. Could be wrong tho.

Given the source, yes, I'm wrong Laughing

Ste, I copy pasted it, so? I hope the answer is enlghtening and interesting.
Also, I appreciate the fact that neither of them signed me out! Laughing
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You had to copy and paste it because the link was broken which meant you couldn't just click on it. Wink
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

piazza wrote:
Was that the guy with the rucksack? I thought he looked more like an innocent that was horrified at being knocked off cos he dindu it. Could be wrong tho.

Probably for holding stolen phones, he doesn't seem to have much street cred though, shoulder bags are the chav choice Folded arms

I doubt they'd include a video of them mowing down an innocent, although they included videos of them falling off on their own so who knows.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

piazza wrote:
I thought he looked more like an innocent that was horrified at being knocked off cos he dindu it.

Nah, that was more like "WTF, dude, you're not supposed to do that!"
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piazza
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
You had to copy and paste it because the link was broken which meant you couldn't just click on it. Wink


Have you got nothing else to do!? gerroff Smile

MC, I said as much after realising the source Whistle
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

What government should do is put more pressure on manufacturers to make bikes harder to steal in the first place. Its a disgrace how easy it is for some tracksuit-toerag to take a bike.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 28 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made a thread about inventions for that sort of thing, it didn't go far.

One good idea seemed to be some sort of thing to do with the steering head to either disconnect steering or lock it. Making the steering configurably "go the other way" would also be interesting...
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rs700
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you make bikes harder to steal it might mean there will be more cases of taking the bike off the riders, using violence, acid or just fear.
Diane Abbot has warned that "55 billion riding their stolen bikes could be slightly killed by police ramming them off their stolen bikes. Thieves have rights too "
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
I made a thread about inventions for that sort of thing, it didn't go far.

One good idea seemed to be some sort of thing to do with the steering head to either disconnect steering or lock it. Making the steering configurably "go the other way" would also be interesting...


My idea was an RFID activated solenoid valve in the brake line. No RFID chip, no brakes.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

rs700 wrote:
if you make bikes harder to steal it might mean there will be more cases of taking the bike off the riders, using violence, acid or just fear.

Thieves already prefer bike jacking (going off documentaries etc.) as it's less hassle than cutting through locks and hotwiring. I think all bikes should have an immobiliser as standard, but beyond that I'm not sure about integrated locks like the odd scooter has.

When you see thieves cutting through locks in broad-daylight then it isn't security that is the issue, it's the impunity they're operating with that's the problem.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
rs700 wrote:
if you make bikes harder to steal it might mean there will be more cases of taking the bike off the riders, using violence, acid or just fear.

Thieves already prefer bike jacking (going off documentaries etc.) as it's less hassle than cutting through locks and hotwiring. I think all bikes should have an immobiliser as standard, but beyond that I'm not sure about integrated locks like the odd scooter has.

When you see thieves cutting through locks in broad-daylight then it isn't security that is the issue, it's the impunity they're operating with that's the problem.


Thieves are essentially pretty lazy unless they're part of high end organised crime such as might be lifting any kind of vehicle from bikes to combine harvesters. Make bikes just a bit harder to steal and at some point you would reach the lazyness watershed point which would automatically end a large percentage of thefts. I just cannot believe it is technically impossible to make bikes more secure at an affordable cost.

As much as it would please me if my bike was stolen to hear the thief was battered by a cop cars bonnet i would prefer the bike not be stolen in the first place. I want all aspects of what causes such crime worked on, from economics to law enforcement and technological.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
I made a thread about inventions for that sort of thing, it didn't go far.

One good idea seemed to be some sort of thing to do with the steering head to either disconnect steering or lock it. Making the steering configurably "go the other way" would also be interesting...


My idea was an RFID activated solenoid valve in the brake line. No RFID chip, no brakes.



Easy enough to do with an Arduino. Probably better cutting off the fuel than the brakes though. Ive thought about RFID myself. You would need failsafe mechanisms as well so in the event the RFID circuut went loopy your bike didn't just cut out at a dangerous moment. There's probably more than enough technical know-how on this forum to do it as well.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutting off the brakes or the fuel isn't going to stop bikelife pushing it away.

M.C wrote:
When you see thieves cutting through locks in broad-daylight then it isn't security that is the issue, it's the impunity they're operating with that's the problem.


THAT is the problem.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Cutting off the brakes or the fuel isn't going to stop bikelife pushing it away.

M.C wrote:
When you see thieves cutting through locks in broad-daylight then it isn't security that is the issue, it's the impunity they're operating with that's the problem.


THAT is the problem.


Yes. It really pisses me off when you hear comrade Khan and others trying to blame vehicle manufacturers for their poor security.

It's society and policing thats at fault. Evil or Very Mad
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I blame the courts more than I blame the police.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
I blame the courts more than I blame the police.

AOL, but I principally blame parliament which makes the makes the policy and the law.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47005832_10156772513878972_5553940871814053888_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=cbe608dc51aa2246b8781d3bcf322528&oe=5C644B3E

Laughing Thumbs Up
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Courier265
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 29 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47005832_10156772513878972_5553940871814053888_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=cbe608dc51aa2246b8781d3bcf322528&oe=5C644B3E

Laughing Thumbs Up


funny I saw the same photo on a BBC NEWSFEED..... Laughing
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 02:18 - 30 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winding back to page 1, at what point is an IPCC investigation automatic or mandatory. I known they do it every time the police shoot someone, but do they automatically investigate every time someone is injured during the course of an arrest?

Personally I feel that if you make a choice not to stop volountarily then it is reasonable to expect to be stopped. That said, I'm very glad we don't live in a country where it's near-routine for police to execute people because they got excited carrying out an arrest.

There is an escalation issue here though. Arm police and criminals are inclined to arm themselves for protection. Similarly in stand your ground states, there is pressure for crimianls to outmatch their victims. Going on a burglary and it's legal to use a gun for hoome defence? Yeah best be armed in casse granny has a .45...

Applied to vehicle chases, one must balance the requirement to protect the public from the criminal with the risk posed by a high speed chase. Now personally I think you can do less damage by crashing a scooter into a crowd of people than you can with a car, so by all means chase.
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Fruit'n'nut
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 30 Nov 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

talkToTheHat wrote:
Winding back to page 1, at what point is an IPCC investigation automatic or mandatory. I known they do it every time the police shoot someone, but do they automatically investigate every time someone is injured during the course of an arrest?


There's an independent IOPC investigation (for firearms) where a police firearm (including less lethal weapons) is discharged, intentionally or not, and it has or may have:
Caused death or serious injury.
Revealed a failure in the command structure.
Caused danger to the police or public.

Similar with pursuits - independent investigation where the pursuit results in death or serious injury.




talkToTheHat wrote:
Applied to vehicle chases, one must balance the requirement to protect the public from the criminal with the risk posed by a high speed chase.




"Protect the public" can also mean considering sustained public protection, which in plain English means that mitigating an imminent risk can increase the duration or displace the location at which more risk is caused later. I.e. if you let a machete-wielding scooterist go now during a risky pursuit, can you control them later, or not? Will there be more risk doing something later?



Have a look through the many webpages of the College Of Policing Authorised Professional Practice on pursuits or firearms if you're interested. They're published openly.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 01 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least two suspected thieves broke bones after being rammed by police

At least one person has a broken arm and another "had some sort of break", the head of the Met Police says.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

https://news.sky.com/story/at-least-two-suspected-thieves-broke-bones-after-being-rammed-by-police-11568395
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 02 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
At least two suspected thieves broke bones after being rammed by police

At least one person has a broken arm and another "had some sort of break", the head of the Met Police says.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

https://news.sky.com/story/at-least-two-suspected-thieves-broke-bones-after-being-rammed-by-police-11568395


Saw that Thumbs Up . Of course David Lammy is horrified. Laughing
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owl
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 04 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Met police officer could be charged for ramming moped

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46440172

Thumbs Down
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:16 - 04 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

owl wrote:
Met police officer could be charged for ramming moped

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46440172

Thumbs Down

That didn't take long Rolling Eyes The thieves will know again the police can't touch them.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 04 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
At least two suspected thieves broke bones after being rammed by police

At least one person has a broken arm and another "had some sort of break", the head of the Met Police says.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

https://news.sky.com/story/at-least-two-suspected-thieves-broke-bones-after-being-rammed-by-police-11568395



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