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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Jay2903 |
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Posted: 00:02 - 06 Nov 2018 Post subject: Re: jay |
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bikenut wrote: | Hi jay, you had a kawasaki problem some time ago and hopefully your shed is the bees knees ?!
Loss of spark proved via red neon plug caps ??
You have a wiring diagram for this bike, 2 sets of points or just one ?
Do any of the lights/electricals ( neutral light being favourite ) etc. misbehave when the steering is turned lock to lock???
How are the new points now, quite badly pitted and very white and lots of sparks when the engine is running ?
you said you have renewed points, condesnsers, coils and plug caps.......
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Prove loss of ht, then move on to fuel, you sure you have loss of ht ?????
and under what condition, ei cold, hot ?
what year xs and a link to cmsnl would be good...... |
Hey mate, nice to hear from you. The workshop is working out lovely.
I’m checking spark with the plugs resting on the top of the engine.
There’s two set of points
Wiring diagram - https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7124306475_b2b97269ce_b.jpg
None of the electricals misbehave when I turn the bars
Points look as new, I had the points cover off one of the times I ran it. No sparks or anything unusual.
It’s a 1975
https://www.cmsnl.com/yamaha-xs500-1976-1h2-europe-1h228-198e5_model37275/partslist/#.W-DLlBanyEc |
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Posted: 11:03 - 06 Nov 2018 Post subject: shed |
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Its nice doing stuff in a big enough shed, dry and out of the wind, a radio, even a piss pot, kettle and joy of joys some heating !! Luxury.
To the bike, how does it behave with the points cover off all the time, had that many many many years ago, screw down points cover and problems, undo cover a bit and problems disappear. Even one time bike all ok when on stand, then rider sits on bike and no power....yeh you guessed it a rag under the seat blocking the air intake......it happens dudes !
Prove a loss of ht ( even an lt problem hence ht loss ) using the relatively cheap red neon plug caps, they are a good quick visual indicator of ht and ht strength, you cna use them on a road test even, much easier than trying to see a dmm with the leads dangling in the wind, besides htf do you see a dmm screen at night?? going up hill???
Dmm's even analoque meters are great and have there uses, so check lt when the bike is playing up also. Earths are all good, has the frame/engine been painted ???
Rule in or rule out ignition first else round and round the mulberry bush till you fall over, sort, then move onto fuel, tank all clean and the vent good as well as the vac fuel tap??
Valve clearances all good as is compression, no compression loss with heat ? ____________________ nuts about bikes |
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Jay2903 |
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Jay2903 |
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Jay2903 Scooby Slapper
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Posted: 12:02 - 06 Nov 2018 Post subject: Re: shed |
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bikenut wrote: | Its nice doing stuff in a big enough shed, dry and out of the wind, a radio, even a piss pot, kettle and joy of joys some heating !! Luxury.
To the bike, how does it behave with the points cover off all the time, had that many many many years ago, screw down points cover and problems, undo cover a bit and problems disappear. Even one time bike all ok when on stand, then rider sits on bike and no power....yeh you guessed it a rag under the seat blocking the air intake......it happens dudes !
Prove a loss of ht ( even an lt problem hence ht loss ) using the relatively cheap red neon plug caps, they are a good quick visual indicator of ht and ht strength, you cna use them on a road test even, much easier than trying to see a dmm with the leads dangling in the wind, besides htf do you see a dmm screen at night?? going up hill???
Dmm's even analoque meters are great and have there uses, so check lt when the bike is playing up also. Earths are all good, has the frame/engine been painted ???
Rule in or rule out ignition first else round and round the mulberry bush till you fall over, sort, then move onto fuel, tank all clean and the vent good as well as the vac fuel tap??
Valve clearances all good as is compression, no compression loss with heat ? |
I was playing with it today. The spark is intermittent on the left side but I don’t know what’s causing it |
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Posted: 11:48 - 10 Nov 2018 Post subject: igntion |
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examine the wiring diagram and "understand" the circuit, its not that complex, then read up on how the cb points type of igntion system works, again thats not that complex, a "transformer" if you will, and a colapsing magnet field.
When the points open, the current flowing thru the 12volt ( low tension, LT ) which has now been switched off, the magnetic field crated by the flowing lt "collapses, with the magnetic lines of force being really attracted top the soft iron laminated "core", as they really love each other !
The collapsing magnetic field "cuts" thru the many many many many many many many many many many more High Tension ( HT, spark ) wires inside the coil. Cut a magnetic field with a wire and a current/voltage (EMF but now we are getting quite technical, do you really need to know about tuned circuits ?? ) is induced into the wire, which can end up as being quite high, HT, a spark. voltage of about 25k volts but little current.
A fouled plug can/will cause a misfire, so both plugs must be clean else tracking ( look for a lightening type burn mark ) will occur. Look inside the plug cap and the plug insulated end that goes into the cylinder. The other end of the plug is stepped but that may have a track mark. Sometimes a lack of light will help you see HT "leakage" just look at the power pylons when its a damp night, you can see and even hear the leak ) .
Gety the inexpensive red neon plug caps I have been banging on about, A relatively cheap ign aid tool, you can see the ht ( or its loss ) and judge its strength, when the engine is cranking and running ( or missfiring ) . You may have to make an adaptor to fit your plugs and plug caps but money and time well spent. They work on cdi systems as well. they can save hours of hair pulling fun, but if that's your thing then just keep having fun until your bald ! ____________________ nuts about bikes |
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bikenut |
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bikenut World Chat Champion
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Posted: 11:59 - 10 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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If I am correct, your xs has 2 individual ign systems, both sharing a common "live feed" from the battery, thru the main ign switch, thru the "kill switch" and then branched to the 2 individual coils and contacts systems.
As said study the wiring diagram so you know the system, and how it works.
Get the red neon plug caps for testing, even by riding the bike at night.
HT coils can pass the resistance check all fine and dandy, band even allow the engine to run on that cylinder, but break down under load and misfiring.
You know the resistance of the coils 2 coils of wire inside ??
And the removable ? ht wires are all ok ?
Check with a fully charged battery the voltage across the battery when cranking and note down.
Check the voltage at the twin coil connector ( disconnected from the coils ) when cranking and note down. Compare, they should be the same, or very very close.
ASs said earlier you can hot wire the coils from the battery but make it fused for safety. This eliminates the bike wiring from the circuit apart form lt from the coils to the points.
Have you been doing any painting of the bike by the way as paint can be a really good insulator.
The red neon plug caps can show you a lot.
If one cylinders plug repeatedly gets fouled ( black carbon deposits causing tracking ) which stays on that cylinder, suspect carb/fuel problems on that cylinder ____________________ nuts about bikes |
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Jay2903 |
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Jay2903 Scooby Slapper
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Posted: 15:02 - 10 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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bikenut wrote: | If I am correct, your xs has 2 individual ign systems, both sharing a common "live feed" from the battery, thru the main ign switch, thru the "kill switch" and then branched to the 2 individual coils and contacts systems.
As said study the wiring diagram so you know the system, and how it works.
Get the red neon plug caps for testing, even by riding the bike at night.
HT coils can pass the resistance check all fine and dandy, band even allow the engine to run on that cylinder, but break down under load and misfiring.
You know the resistance of the coils 2 coils of wire inside ??
And the removable ? ht wires are all ok ?
Check with a fully charged battery the voltage across the battery when cranking and note down.
Check the voltage at the twin coil connector ( disconnected from the coils ) when cranking and note down. Compare, they should be the same, or very very close.
ASs said earlier you can hot wire the coils from the battery but make it fused for safety. This eliminates the bike wiring from the circuit apart form lt from the coils to the points.
Have you been doing any painting of the bike by the way as paint can be a really good insulator.
The red neon plug caps can show you a lot.
If one cylinders plug repeatedly gets fouled ( black carbon deposits causing tracking ) which stays on that cylinder, suspect carb/fuel problems on that cylinder |
Alrighty, I’ve checked almost everything but I’m gonna go back over it and make note and get some plug caps.
If I wire the coils from the battery and it still doesn’t work what else could it be ? |
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jaffa90 |
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jaffa90 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 18:29 - 10 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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"""If I wire the coils from the battery and it still doesn’t work what else could it be ?"""
You will over heat the coils with a constant input voltage. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 140 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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