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What sort of Brexit do you want?

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What type of Brexit do you want?
No Deal, properly leave.
66%
 66%  [ 41 ]
May's Leave in name only deal.
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Let the EU and establishment keep us in the EU
25%
 25%  [ 16 ]
Other. (Specify)
6%
 6%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 62

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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
I do like how you're not in the UK and feel you have a better read of public opinion Neutral


People all over this globe are the same. Unless they're given something to be pissed/happy about, they don't care. Wink
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:44 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
M.C wrote:
I do like how you're not in the UK and feel you have a better read of public opinion Neutral


People all over this globe are the same. Unless they're given something to be pissed/happy about, they don't care. Wink

This wasn't a plant. Who typically tells people what they should be angry about? The government or the MSM, both of whom were on the whole pro-europe. If people were being conditioned one way or the other it was to remain, the backlash in terms of the mainstream media, TV/film, the arts was revealing after the referendum.

As with Trump, it isn't that people were conditioned, it's that the old conditioning isn't working anymore. If people are going to be subservient they need to be looked after. All the working class peasant mongs were happy with crumbs, but not having nothing at all.
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Val
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PostPosted: 02:11 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:


How similar do you think the Swiss and the UK law systems are, that you assume, that whatever goes in Switzerland should as well go in the UK? That is a serious question.

We do know far too well, that the Brexit referendum was not legally binding. However, the democratically elected UK gov. decided to go with it.

Was Cameron stupid to even suggest the referendum? Yes, he was, very stupid, a publicity stunt gone wrong. Did many people vote leave because of ''Steve''? Maybe. Was the referendum an expression of direct democracy? Yes, it was.

TL; DR: UK is leaving, people have spoken, the gov. has decided. Also, your Swiss article is not applicable here at all. 6 referendums to decide what the maternity leave should look like is hardly comparable with a country leaving the EU after years of integration and cooperation. Having 6 Brexit referendums would lead to incredible legal and economical uncertainty and would render UK unworthy of any major investments from abroad. Investing in such country would pure gambling.


Serious answer - UK and Switzerland laws and constitutions are completely different. For a starter UK has unwritten constitution. I know that is oxymoron but it is what it is.

For the record I never have said I want 6 new Brexit referendums and the point of both articles is NOT to have any referendums if the setup is wrong. Both articles give the example where Swiss disregarded a referendum despite having completly different system that is centered of having many referendums.

The reason they have done that is the same reason why UK Parliament must cancel A50 and NOT have any new referendums - you can't resolve complex isssues that have multiple implications with simple binary questions.

People have spoken - no they haven't. Leave has many different options: EEA, Norway+, May's deal, Canada++, WTO. What the fuck would have to be?

The same is valid if say we have new referendum and say Remain wins with 56:44. What Remain? With Euro, new EU army or somethig else.

Means complex problems need complex solutions. You are a lawyer. You know Leave means nothing unless there are literally hundreds of laws that can support that.

In UK Parliamentary democracy this needs to be decided in the Parliament.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 02:43 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
You say leave has many different options so then you give four examples that aren't leave and only one example that is leave?.
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Val
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PostPosted: 02:44 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


Being the guy who cleans your office I know you are talking BS.


Here one small math test for you wise guy.

All cleaners are liars.

Based on that is your post truth or false?

Good luck Laughing
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Val
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PostPosted: 02:47 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
You say leave has many different options so then you give four examples that aren't leave and only one example that is leave?.


So Canada is in EU according to you Laughing

Citation?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 02:56 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's got nothing to do with how a Canada-style Brexit would work.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
In UK Parliamentary democracy this needs to be decided in the Parliament.

And it certainly was, as I was saying earlier. The Brexit referendum was not legally binding. It's the UK gov., that decided to leave the EU.

The UK gov. never had to even ask the people what they wanted. Wink
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 CPT wrote:
Diggs wrote:
A working class scumbag will be worse off if the economy dips (as it is widely predicted to do even by brexiteers), because tax revenue will dip also and said scumbag will experience less spend on education, police, armed forces, roads, pensions, NHS etc etc etc. This means that the cost of his fags and lager will rise to compensate.


And if we stay in the federal republic of greater Germany, how will the future be?


Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that immigrants pay more in taxes than they take out of the system.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you've read previous posts of mine you will know that the future I predict whether in or out of the EU is far from rosy. Remember Caroline Lucas on a horse?

You mention immigrants repeatedly.

My argument all along has been that we are better off inside an organisation that plans to 'ease' change towards a non-fossil fuel economy than outside it.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
You have this bizarre idea that oil and gas companies will somehow come up with a fuel that is as efficient as oil, can be produced with minimal impact upon the environment and is suitable for mass personal transport. That fuel hasn't been discovered or created yet. The whole reason why we all have cars is because of the particular properties of oil that is extracted from beneath the ground rather than synthesised in some third world country where the population lives on imported food rather than growing its own.

Why should BP, ESSO, TOTAL etc give a fuck about you and your Mondeo? The shareholders have made their money. Multinational businesses come and go. I am not saying that fuel won't exist because it will, but it will be too expensive for the likes of you or I to be able to run a car. Hence Caroline Lucas on a horse....

Things change, life moves on. Before the internal combustion engine was invented Ms Lucas would have ridden a horse - once it is uneconomic for the masses she will have to ride another.

I feel a contradiction on your part. On the one hand you talk about the EU being run in the interests of 'fat cats' and the master-race, and you don't like it. On the other you are happy to rely upon faceless 'big business' and organisations as yet unknown to step up and keep you in the manner you are accustomed, i.e. able to drive to the shops for your Anusol.

Its pointless debating this with you, because you live in a bubble.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Ok, in your opinion, if we go with this agreement, what is the worst thing that could happen for the UK on the basis of it?


I haven't forgotten you, it's a difficult question to answer, I will get back. The fact probably lies between "nothing" and "Argh!".
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:


My argument all along has been that we are better off inside an organisation that plans to 'ease' change towards a non-fossil fuel economy than outside it.


Do you want any say in how they do things? Will you get to have your say?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
The bus was only an example.


It wasn't a very good example. For one thing, claims about the meaning of what was written on the bus were entirely misleading, and for another thing there were many better examples of how we were informed about what would happen if we voted to leave, including the government's "referendum leaflet" and information indicated by it about what might happen financially; job losses, lower GDP; real falls in wages, etc. It's still available online. We still voted "Leave", as you are aware.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mpg where do we get our useable hydrogen from - fossil fuels. Where will we get it from in the future - biomass. Where will we grow all this biomass in the uk - on land that we will need for food production.

The trade-off is easy to understand. We either grow biomass to produce power and sell it, or we grow food to eat.

I'm talking about fuel for the great unwashed, not for businesses transporting low volume, high profit non-perishables.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Diggs wrote:


My argument all along has been that we are better off inside an organisation that plans to 'ease' change towards a non-fossil fuel economy than outside it.


Do you want any say in how they do things? Will you get to have your say?


If we are out of the EU we have less say than if we are in. Will we get to have our say? I suggest sir, that we have more of a chance when sat around a table than waiting for scraps from the US and China.
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Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:


If we are out of the EU we have less say than if we are in. Will we get to have our say? I suggest sir, that we have more of a chance when sat around a table than waiting for scraps from the US and China.


Don't you start all that "sir" bollocks too Rolling Eyes

Less say in what? Of course we will have less say in what the EU does if we are not in it.
Your "suggestion" is noted Laughing
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Diggs wrote:


If we are out of the EU we have less say than if we are in. Will we get to have our say? I suggest sir, that we have more of a chance when sat around a table than waiting for scraps from the US and China.


Don't you start all that "sir" bollocks too Rolling Eyes

Less say in what? Of course we will have less say in what the EU does if we are not in it.
Your "suggestion" is noted Laughing


Thank you.

No reflection upon our relationship, but this always makes me smile, sir!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kD1YUtA5o
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:


No reflection upon our relationship, but this always makes me smile, sir!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kD1YUtA5o


I haven't watched it, madam.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
It was meant to lighten the mood, monkey-boy!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 17 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
Val wrote:
In UK Parliamentary democracy this needs to be decided in the Parliament.

And it certainly was, as I was saying earlier. The Brexit referendum was not legally binding. It's the UK gov., that decided to leave the EU.

The UK gov. never had to even ask the people what they wanted. Wink

Then every referendum ever is totally useless if you ignore the results. Far from being a democratic act, the Gina Miller legal action was about putting it back in the hands of the politicians, because she knew they wouldn't go through with it... which's exactly what's happening.

Diggs wrote:
Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that immigrants pay more in taxes than they take out of the system.

I do think they miss a key factor in this. With all the houses being raided around here with 18 eastern europeans (6 to a room) living there, those living in cars etc. and we even had a migrant camp, I do genuinely wonder how much money leaves the economy.

It's easy to slum in for 6 months when you have a (exit) plan, it's also easy to accept less than favourable working conditions when it's still (a lot) better than what you'd earn back home.
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