125cc engine swap

[hoodlumrider]

hi guys,i own a sinnis hoodlum 125cc .love the bike but a friend showed me a video of a 125v twin and now I'm chomping at the bit . does anyone know if an engine swap from a bog standard 125 engine too a 125 v twin please? I'm convinced its possible but the more i look at pictures the more I'm less convinced .anyone with more wisdom able to help and advise please

many thanks

tony
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dress for the slide not the ride

[jaffa90]

Wisdom?
I'm chomping at the bit .
If you need more horsepower buy a bigger engine bike.

Saves hassle with insurance comps declaring the mods.

[hoodlumrider]

im not fussed about the "more power" i would like to swap the engine as as it sounds better. plus i wouldn't say 3hp is that much to justify swapping out a 125 for another 125 engine. if i wanted a more powerful bike I'd happily get one but i don't have the need nor the want for a bigger bike. thanks for the input though
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dress for the slide not the ride

[Ste]

Yes it's possible if you know how to machine all the necessary parts for fitting the engine in the frame for starters.

It would be a complete waste of time and money and the bike will still be a shit slow 125 with L plates on.

[hoodlumrider]

rightio ok thanks ste, yea its slow but its only temp till i can implement my current plans so i was just trying to have some fun with it hence my choice to do an engine swap
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dress for the slide not the ride

[Ste]

How long 'til you can implement your current plans?

[hoodlumrider]

if it goes the way im hoping 2020
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dress for the slide not the ride

[Sister Sledge]

The truth? A total nightmare. Read on if you're interested..

It's far far easier to use an engine which is a straight forward 'drop in' unit. If it's not then consider this list:

The engine has to physically fit into the gap left by removing the old engine.
You now have to consider orientation on 3 axis - forwards/backwards, up/down, left/right.
Does the chain go to the same side of the engine?
Do frame mounts match up?
Once the replacement engine is in, how does it compare? For example how close is the fuel tank? (Fuel will boil if too close)
Once the engine is in, all control cables and links will need to be sorted and linked.
The engine electrics will need marrying into the wiring loom.
Exhaust(s) now need coupling.

Frames are not made of general everyday steel and so redoing mounting holes will need excellent fabrication skills and knowledge. Actually almost every part of the mounting process will need good skills. Personally I wouldn't tackle the exhaust linking never mind the rest and I'm a blacksmith/welder! It's really not worth the scraped knuckles and hundreds of engine mounting/removals to adjust and suit.
Don't get me started on the leccy bits!

All done now? If the engine sits just a few degrees out of angle then there's the potential for oil lubrication problems inside the engine. Just saying..

Insurance? Good luck with insuring that modified 125!

If you have the skillz and the knowhow and this isn't your everyday bike then nah don't do it. There are far easier things to make that will test skills and come in handy - a bike stand for example.

I once put a Suzuki B120 engine into my Yamaha TY50. It kinda worked though mounting brackets had to be made (courtesy of Swan Hunters ship yard actually!). It boiled the petrol and was generally shit anyway and the monstrosity lasted a week before both bikes went back to standard - that was a biking confession and I'm so sorry folks. My excuse is I was 16
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CCM 404 DS

[Ste]

Well, we've really pissed all over his bonfire.

[hoodlumrider]

fourte- thank you for the detailed break down this has convinced me to not concider this route . im now toying with the idea of a new bike lol

ste- not really i knew it was going to be hard but after fourte comment its not only hard but impossible.and there is too much risk of it going wrong
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dress for the slide not the ride

[Teflon-Mike]

I am trying to think how many 125's ever had V-Twins in them....
... Honda VT125 Shaddow / Very-Oh-Dear-Oh
.... Suzuki... err... they did a cruiser that wasn't the it-doesn't ma-Roar-der... Savage, maybe?
... Yamaha... I think there was a 125 cruisery-thing, it might have been a Drugstar...
..... Kawasaki... pretty sure that the 125 Eliminator was always a parallel twin, like the Honda Rable... sorry, Rebel.
There were a few interesting cruisers from Italy, The Gilera Red-Rose being one I recall.... but that and the Aprilia and Cagiva rivals were schizophrenic two-strokes, not twins, though post Euro-Borrox emissions, they may have stuffed, probably Suzuki V-Twins in them, like the Hyosung...

ANYWAY.... list of possible 125 V-Twin 'Donors' is, err rather short..... Its also noteable that almost all of the bikes you might rob a 125 V-Twin from, for transplant, are, generally more valuable than a Sinnis....

This begs a rather curious conundrum, in that you are starting with what is essentially a 'cheap' budget bike, which you would almost certainly make LESS vaualble by doing any sort of 'customisation' to it.... a-n-d... the customization you contemplate begs taking an engine out of a rather more expensive bike, WHICH, is probably most cost-effectively acquired as a whole bike.... usually cheaper to buy a breaker than the piece parts that have been taken off one by a breaker..... easier and cheaper to fix that up than try grafting its bits onto something else!

SO... there's a fair few counts against the plan before you begin..... A-N-D this idea you 'ownleee' really wanna do it for that V-Twin rumble.... err... yeah..... NO!!!

Have you ever heard a 125 V-Twin? Actually, have you ever heard ANY 125 four-stroke twin!!!!

They do not 'rumble'... in fact, if anything they sound even more weedie than a single, cos the pots are each half the size and they have even less volume in the fire hole to make the deep low-bass 'resonance' associated with a Harldfley....

I say Hardley...... my MOT man retired a couple of years ago; I had to taker err-nibs bludi-guzzi, a V-twin, for its ticket, and the new chap was a hardley lovin cut-off-type.... he kept looking at it when I wheeled it in the work-shop, and then muttered "I heard you pull up... I was expecting a Hardley.... is it outside?" Lol.

To wit, its not the shape of the engine that imparts that 'noise', its the size... and peculiarly a little bit of early exhaust opening 'tuning'.....

A mere 125cc pot, does not have the displacement to chuck out that rumble.... cut it in half and bolt tow of them together... they have even less chance....

REALLY.... this is a complete 'random' association of daft ideas, that you want that 'noise', and so you must need a V-Twin to get it.....

And that is before any ponderation of the practicalities of 'customisation'... which usually means spending money to make a bike less valuable, less rideable, and less reliable.....

Beyond that... anything is possible with a big enough hammer and a gas-axe..... Some-one stuck a GSXR1100 engine in a mini-moto fer crissiks.... but likely they knew it was a daft idea before they began!

For where you are starting? I suspect it is very very much a non-starter, before you begin.

Very fact you ask the way you did, hints that you 'hope' that there's a V-=Twin bike out there you can rob an engine from, that will drop into your sinnis Chassis 'Bolt-for-Bolt'..... there isn't, sorry... and even if there was, you still have little niggles like finding or making exhausts to suit, sorting out electrics from different bikes, sorting out the carburetors and air-box, etc etc etc..... EVEN if the engine went in bolt-for-bolt, it would STILL be no ten minute job.....

Two-Years until big-bike becons.... hints that you are a 17 year-old on CBT, believcing you cant have anything more until 19, or a 19 year-old sold the line that you may as well wait until 21 and only have to pay once to dooow-DAS and get the ride-what-you-like-licence, for your money in a oner.

Either way.... BEST spend of any time and or effort right now will be to learn to ride and get a licence.... EVEN if thats the 125-only A1 licence.... at least you get to ditch the L-oonie plates and not risk points on the licence you likely dont even have yet for them being cracked, the wrong spacing or missing.... and no-spanners or oxy-ascetalene required.... curiously the bike will sound better and go better for it, too....

If you really want a rorty V-Twin, have patience.... by the time you had built something 125 C-Twin that's still not rorty.... it would likely be 2020 anyhow... so you may as well, spend the time, NOT wasting time, effort and money to build a never will be rorty 125, and if you REALLY want to get hands muky and graze knockles and make a bald spot scratching your head trying to figure out where you can bolt a battery box, or how to wire an MOT-able stop-lamp..... do 'something' project-bike wise for when you have licence to ride it....

Plenty of over 125 V-Twins that as standard have that 'rorty' noise, and many of them are probably worth less than your Sinnis.... Guzzi's came in V-Twin configuration ranging from 350cc up to 1200 or so. The 'Small-Bock' 350/500/650/750 'Tonti' Guzzis are wonderful creations, as said oft mistaken for a Hardley, with that V-Twin rumble; they are also all, if not native A2 licence complaint, certainly A2 restrictable. Think that Err-Nibs, claims just over 50 Italian-Stalions for its cc, and they dont take much to 'restrict' to A2 limits... even if the Rear-Wheel Dyno-print that shows one under even the 'old' 33bhp limit, wouldn't blag it!!!

The rival to the small-block Guzzi's, and precursor to the 'sport-V-Twin, by, oooh..... quarter of a century or so.... was the Morini 3&1/2 or 500, with an 'in-line' Harley-esque V-Twin arangement, rather like the later 'little' Ducati's L-Twin's.

There's three woppish examples straight OTMH; without contemplating that the Hardley 883 'Piglet' barely made 55 Virginia pit-ponies, and is equally A2 restrictable, and has the extra cubic-inches in its engine to make that 'real' V-Twin rumble.... of not a lot of motion.... so pedestrians can savour the sound as you go by..... seemingly for all eternity!!!!

Look to the rising sun, and the options are legion......

Top of the list has to be the 'My First Cruiser' Yamaha 535 Viagra..... sold by the bucket load, as a cruisery-cummuter, its actually quite a good bike, and there are many MANY examples that come up for penny prices, ranging from pampered garage trophies, oft bought originally by mid-life crisis men or as often women and never ridden in the rain, through to hard worked every-day hacks and scrap-heap refugees come rolling 'custom' projects.

Cheap, plentiful, and A2 restrict able, if needed. IF you have to have a project.... plenty to be found to keep spanners busy for the next couple of years; whether restoring one to brochure, or taking a butchered one and making it work... there in lies a lot of mechanical madness to be had, for when you have licence to ride it.... or anything else with an engine big enough to give you the 'noise' you hope for.....

Meanwhile, 125, is left stock, to do what 125's do best, offer cheap learner/commuter wheels, whilst you learn a thing or two and get a licence to let you have something to 'play' with, that stands chance of actually delivering what you hope for.

Back to the Drawing Board, I'm afraid.... more thought required.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[G]

[MarJay]

You might as well take your bike and throw it in the nearest canal. The result will be pretty much the same.

Unless you REALLY know what you are doing, an engine swap is difficult, even when the engine is approximately the same size and configuration as you started with. To swap a single for a V twin? You might as well re-make the entire frame from scratch. If you're going to do that, you might as well sell your bike and buy a V-twin 125.

That's all assuming you have some level of mechanical competence, which I'd guess as you are asking the question that you do not. In which case you'll end up ruining your bike. So why not short circuit the process and throw your bike in the canal?

Let's assume that you find someone to help who has some mechanical knowledge. A bike with a swapped engine is a massive red flag for anyone buying the bike, so your cheap Chinese second hand bike is then worth less than it would be as standard, which sadly is not a heck of a lot. So your successfully modified Sinnis will be completely worthless and you might as well throw it in the canal.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[A100man]

https://images.clickdealer.co.uk/vehicles/1217/1217841/large1/19464303.jpg

This bike appears to have no redeeming features.. I looks heavy, it looks like a 'cruiser' and it's chinko which means almost every element from seals to chrome/metal finish will be made of inferior materials.

As such I think Canal is the best option.

However, you could, if you have little conscience, sell it to a mate and buy something Japanese.
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[A100man]

Oh dear, I've spent too long on BCF and now look whats happened..

Enjoy the Simnis while it lasts but plan for an update as soon as finances/licence allow.

(to self - there, there now that didn't hurt did it?)
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[MarJay]

[growler]

a very long time ago I put an SS50 engine into a CB50
this involved a crow bar and some rafter hangers
and we never could get it to run properly
It also had a huge spot light mounted above the headlight which when turned on killed all the other lights
My mate was caught riding it and was told to take that heap home and set it alight putting the poor thing out of its misery

As I mentioned it was a very long time ago
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DILLIGAF

[cb1rocket]

Just buy a proper 125 v twin and be done with it. What you suggesting is way beyond your abilities. Even i wouldn't be daft enough to attempt something as stupid as that

https://mcn-images.bauersecure.com/upload/840/images/mvt122004sba-01.jpg
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Honda H100S2 Rebuild - https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=253852

[WD Forte]

Easy peasy
Buy a varadero frame then source a suitable v-twin engine from say
a varadero then buy some forks for say a varadero then
wheels from, top of my head, a varadero.
Fit forks and wheels then engine then source loom and electrical
thingummy bobs from various sources, I'd start with say a varadero
and seat from a something like a varadero or even a varadero
Use exisiting L plates and soon you'll have a V-twin 125.
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bikers smell of wee

[stevo as b4]

No logic in this at all. Its definitely one of those you'd be better changing the bike than swapping the engine out.

Anyway tell me whats so good about 90 degree V-twins? I'd prefer from a packaging and performance point of view in any engine size to have a parallel twin than a V-twin, it makes so much more sense.

And whats great about having two 62cc cylinders anyway. The cylinders are so small it's pointless trying to fit more than 2valves into the head, and a 4stroke 125cc single can flow enough air and could if designed to do so rev high enough to make over 20bhp.

[dydey90]

Nah, you don’t want a parallel twin. You want two of them. Mounted at 90 degrees.
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This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750

[Teflon-Mike]

[jaffa90]

All very entertaining

[MarJay]

Interesting to see the OP has not yet returned to this thread...
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Ste]

You sound surprised.