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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| GhostRider |
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GhostRider
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 Posted: 01:48 - 27 Dec 2018  Post subject: |
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| grr666 wrote: | It's almost as if all unionised industries are on a go slow because of who the current government is.  The public sector
lot don't appreciate being ripped off of the teat and this is how they show it. |
As someone who works in the NHS in operating theatres, amongst many levels of professions within the trust, I can categorically say you're fucking delusional if you think anyone is purposefully being negligent in their duties in order to "stick it to the man". People aren't there primarily to cash their pay packet, they are there because they give a shit, because fuck knows they'd have marched elsewhere if it was all about the money when you consider all the bureaucracy in amongst the long hours, the fact their job is constantly on the line if they fuck up, and a large portion of thanklessness. I see many people give everything for no obvious reward other than they feel its the right thing to do. It costs marriages, relationships with their families, and a lot of their free time.
Sadly the prognosis for this old dear is not good, had a surgeon relay the stats on femoral fractures for over 70's to me, and it isn't a pleasant tale - if the shock doesn't kill them the pneumonia will, and given her long stay on a cold wet pavement that hasn't stacked things in her favour. Hopefully she beats the odds.
Well done to OP for heeding the call.
GhostRider
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| UnknownStuntm... |
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 14:06 - 27 Dec 2018  Post subject: |
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I think anyone who accesses any NHS service should be presented with an invoice at the point of discharge. Half the problem is people in the UK have no idea how much healthcare costs.
If they are a UK tax payer, it should read "Paid in full because the NHS is free at the point of delivery" at the bottom. But they should still be given the invoice so they realise how much it costs the taxpayer.
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Posted: 14:16 - 27 Dec 2018  Post subject: |
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| GhostRider wrote: |
As someone who works in the NHS in operating theatres, amongst many levels of professions within the trust, I can categorically say you're fucking delusional if you think anyone is purposefully being negligent in their duties in order to "stick it to the man". |
NHS waste is eye watering though. People seem oblivious to spending money when it comes from the government, funded by the tax payer.
There seems like a culture of not trying to save money.
My ex worked with a woman in the waiting list office who pulled 6 month sickies for over 2 years before they sidelined her on early retirement. She's take off just under the 6 months on full pay, then return to work for just long enough to reset the clock again.
Her last sick note was posted from Gatwick airport, so she'd actually planned to return to her villa in Fuerteventura and pre booked flights, before she even went off sick.
Unfortunately unions make this sort of slacking common place in nationalised industries.
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| Posted: 17:41 - 27 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| M.C. wrote: |
I've worked with people pulling the same kinda shit in the private sector. One guy worked out how much he needed to work to get his sick pay 'entitlement', he'd work for a month then we wouldn't see him for another year. Another guy did the same thing, although he'd come back for a week or two to reset his sick thingy then be off sick for the next 6 months. Genuine sickies were sacked after ~6 months but these guys went on for 2-3 years gaming the system. |
IMO, It always seems to be a union protecting the slacker, even in the private sector.
| M.C. wrote: | There was a report recently (probably fake news  ) that the NHS was actually quite efficient, my experience's one of penny pinching to the determent of peoples health rather than 'waste', which seems to be backed up by the stories you hear. Obviously it depends on your local NHS trust. |
Just one example, but surgical kits are bought in pre-wrapped and sterilised. If a kit is opened just for one item, the entire kit goes in the bin unused apart from 1 item.
Doctors prescribing Paracetamol. Forget the cost to the patient, how much does a pharmacist charge the government per item for a prescribed drug? It must be a fair bit if these delivery chemists can make a profit on each delivery.
Even if the pharmacist suggests buying them off the shelf, I'd be amazed if they didn't still mark it as a prescribed drug on their government funded account.
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GhostRider
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| Posted: 10:57 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: | | GhostRider wrote: |
As someone who works in the NHS in operating theatres, amongst many levels of professions within the trust, I can categorically say you're fucking delusional if you think anyone is purposefully being negligent in their duties in order to "stick it to the man". |
NHS waste is eye watering though. People seem oblivious to spending money when it comes from the government, funded by the tax payer.
There seems like a culture of not trying to save money.
My ex worked with a woman in the waiting list office who pulled 6 month sickies for over 2 years before they sidelined her on early retirement. She's take off just under the 6 months on full pay, then return to work for just long enough to reset the clock again.
Her last sick note was posted from Gatwick airport, so she'd actually planned to return to her villa in Fuerteventura and pre booked flights, before she even went off sick.
Unfortunately unions make this sort of slacking common place in nationalised industries. |
Right so because Karen from Admin is pulling a fast one, it stands to reason that the paramedics see the bleep coming in and think "yeah fuck that, time for another coffee"?
| Quote: | Just one example, but surgical kits are bought in pre-wrapped and sterilised. If a kit is opened just for one item, the entire kit goes in the bin unused apart from 1 item |
Nope, the remainder of the kit goes back to be sterilised again and reused. Because its no longer sterile. Unless you're happy to sign a waiver saying you don't mind potentially contaminated instruments being used for your surgery? Enjoy your staph infection, 2 legs are over-rated anyway right?
Besides, there's an effort to pack spares in singles for that very reason, just sometimes there is a specific instrument that is usually used in certain procedures but sometimes is the weapon of choice in others - you want the right tool for the job used right? Alternatively, sign the waiver saying "wing it doc", cuz who gives a fuck if your spinal fusion actually stays intact once they stitch you up eh?
| Quote: | Doctors prescribing Paracetamol. Forget the cost to the patient, how much does a pharmacist charge the government per item for a prescribed drug? It must be a fair bit if these delivery chemists can make a profit on each delivery.
Even if the pharmacist suggests buying them off the shelf, I'd be amazed if they didn't still mark it as a prescribed drug on their government funded account. |
Every effort is made to avoid doing this where possible - anaesthetists ask for paracetamol to be administered as a pre-med before a patient comes to theatre. But for various reasons the nurses don't always do it (looking after 5 patients simultaneously, understaffed ward, didn't read the pre-op notes properly etc), so there's no choice but to give IV paracetamol instead at a much higher cost. You could do your bit by refusing consent for paracetamol, or claim an allergy, of course.
They'll always ask a patient if they have pain relief at home i.e paracetamol, codeine, ibuprofen so as to avoid writing them a prescription and therefore costing the NHS £6 instead of the 30p from Tesco the patient could acquire themselves. But patients are funny creatures, in that they don't understand pharmacology, so they think the doctor prescription is for the "good stuff" rather than the "weak one" from Tesco, as they don't understand they're exactly the same thing - pharma companies make millions of off this cognitive error from fancy packaging and marketing alone, selling paracetamol with caffeine as some kind of miracle cure.
Anyways, the point is, everything I've seen in 3 years working in hospitals is to the effort of reducing shit like this, or putting patient safety first. But there are myriad ways which prevent this from occurring the way we'd want it to, much of it out of the hands of practitioners. The doctors sure as fuck aren't skimming off the top.
GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip. |
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 13:05 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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When I got scalded from the waist down in a boiler explosion in the early 2000's I was airlifted to Chelmsford burns unit as a private patient paid for by Shell (or more likely Shells insurance).
I got given the bill after the first 2 weeks in there, £67000. I almost had a relapse 
I was in a month and a half so going on that it cost over £200000 for my treatment back then. Add in all the out patients and doctors I saw once discharged I dread to think what the final bill was.
The thing is, if Shell hadn't paid, I would have got exactly the same treatment on the NHS because it was an emergency.
Medicine is an expensive game.
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| M.C |
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M.C
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| Posted: 13:30 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| GhostRider wrote: | They'll always ask a patient if they have pain relief at home i.e paracetamol, codeine, ibuprofen so as to avoid writing them a prescription and therefore costing the NHS £6 instead of the 30p from Tesco the patient could acquire themselves. But patients are funny creatures, in that they don't understand pharmacology, so they think the doctor prescription is for the "good stuff" rather than the "weak one" from Tesco, as they don't understand they're exactly the same thing - pharma companies make millions of off this cognitive error from fancy packaging and marketing alone, selling paracetamol with caffeine as some kind of miracle cure. |
I've never understood with prescriptions how they can charge you £8 for a £5 product? It's like you're paying for a mystery bag, then you find out if you've been ripped off.
Regarding pain relief after a bike crash I was asked, said yes, was told to get it myself, went home, laid in the fetal position and probably would have died had I not (just about) been able to open a bit of window. My hospital notes then said I'd refused pain relief  |
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| Posted: 14:17 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| GhostRider wrote: | Right so because Karen from Admin is pulling a fast one, it stands to reason that the paramedics see the bleep coming in and think "yeah fuck that, time for another coffee"? |
Not at all, I'm just highlighting that there's another side to your hugely biased representation of the entire NHS all being hard working.
| GhostRider wrote: | Nope, the remainder of the kit goes back to be sterilised again and reused. |
Not at my trust they don't, they're disposable.
| GhostRider wrote: | Every effort is made to avoid doing this where possible - anaesthetists ask for paracetamol to be administered as a pre-med before a patient comes to theatre. But for various reasons the nurses don't always do it (looking after 5 patients simultaneously, understaffed ward, didn't read the pre-op notes properly etc), so there's no choice but to give IV paracetamol instead at a much higher cost. You could do your bit by refusing consent for paracetamol, or claim an allergy, of course. |
So "every effort" is made, but it doesn't happen? Righto, point proven.
| GhostRider wrote: | They'll always ask a patient if they have pain relief at home i.e paracetamol, codeine, ibuprofen so as to avoid writing them a prescription and therefore costing the NHS £6 instead of the 30p from Tesco the patient could acquire themselves. But patients are funny creatures, in that they don't understand pharmacology, so they think the doctor prescription is for the "good stuff" rather than the "weak one" from Tesco, as they don't understand they're exactly the same thing - pharma companies make millions of off this cognitive error from fancy packaging and marketing alone, selling paracetamol with caffeine as some kind of miracle cure. |
So let me get this straight, it's all the patients fault because they think NHS prescribed paracetamol is superior to the same Paracetamol paid for out of prescription? Really? I'll have to take your word for that.
| GhostRider wrote: | Anyways, the point is, everything I've seen in 3 years working in hospitals is to the effort of reducing shit like this, or putting patient safety first. But there are myriad ways which prevent this from occurring the way we'd want it to, much of it out of the hands of practitioners. The doctors sure as fuck aren't skimming off the top. |
Ah, so you've changed your mind again and now agree that waste is rife in the NHS? OK, we agree.
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| Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 14:29 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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The thing about being paracetamol on the NHS is now bollocks, has been for months if not longer, unless there's a pre existing condition.
Some Drs are more proactive than others, when I went for my last batch of tramadol, they tried getting me to take anything and everything available OTC, before finally asking if I worked or not, then prescribing. Making sure I wasn't going to sell it I suppose after getting it for free
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| thx1138 |
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| Freddyfruitba... |
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Freddyfruitba...
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| GhostRider |
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GhostRider
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| Posted: 15:59 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 CPT wrote: |
Not at all, I'm just highlighting that there's another side to your hugely biased representation of the entire NHS all being hard working.
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I was originally referring to the comment suggesting that the paramedics were purposefully on a "go-slow", so was in reference to clinical practitioners wilfully neglecting patients, not some admin tart way removed from the patients trying their luck to screw the system. Which isn't unique to the NHS either, mate of mine worked at Virgin and told me of a similar scenario, involving people going on long-term sick for a easy pay day, and another of someone being utterly shit at their job and throwing the "rascist!!" card into the mix when approached about it and taking it to tribunal.
| Quote: | Not at my trust they don't, they're disposable. |
So you can't generalise that point then.
| Quote: | So "every effort" is made, but it doesn't happen? Righto, point proven. |
Again, the doctor has done their part to ensure it happens, so not being deliberately lax with concerns to spending, which was the point.
| Quote: | So let me get this straight, it's all the patients fault because they think NHS prescribed paracetamol is superior to the same Paracetamol paid for out of prescription? Really? I'll have to take your word for that |
It was one example. And its a known phenomena, even in placebo double blind studies, red pills have been shown to be more effective than blue pills, which are more effective still from white pills.
Another explanation is that patients are lazy and would rather pick up their script from the same hospital rather than make a detour to Boots.
| Quote: | Ah, so you've changed your mind again and now agree that waste is rife in the NHS? OK, we agree. |
Hmm not quite, I'm saying efforts are made to reduce waste but, as with any system, there are various factors that mean this doesn't operate efficiently, some of them human, others because the system is orchestrated such that it makes it far more difficult than it should be. You could say that yes the waste in the NHS is rife, but its not attributable to every person who works within it as a blanket statement, which is how you make it sound.
GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip. |
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| GhostRider |
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GhostRider
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| Posted: 16:00 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| Freddyfruitbat wrote: | | GhostRider wrote: | patients are funny creatures, in that they don't understand pharmacology, so they think the doctor prescription is for the "good stuff" rather than the "weak one" from Tesco, as they don't understand they're exactly the same thing - pharma companies make millions of off this cognitive error from fancy packaging and marketing alone, selling paracetamol with caffeine as some kind of miracle cure |
A classic example of this is branded drugs versus generics. My lad works on the till at a town-centre Tesco; has a lot of regular and very poor customers. ('Vulnerable'). He'll often get people buying Nurofen at £1.90 a pack, rather than the generic equivalent Tesco ibuprofen at just 40p. He tries quietly and helpfully pointing out that the products are 100% identical and they can save their money, but you can guess the response, can't you?  Makes his hair bleed... |
Precisely.
GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip. |
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| grr666 |
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grr666
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| Posted: 21:16 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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And how many of those scans/treatments are actually NEEDED Percy? And how many are to keep up the outward
appearance of "debilitating" sickness to avoid work and validate claims? It's still waste, anyway you look at it. All you are
demonstrating here is that the treatment is a bit cheap and a bit nasty. But OK, lets use your prices. I'll still
bet a beefy bollock that the vast majority of people running up the costs of the NHS like it's FREE couldn't pay
those prices either. I suggest that a great many of the regulars on the NHS wouldn't be quite so regular if they had
to pay even half of your "bargain" prices.
Everyone you'll see in a private hospital is ill enough to either pay out or put an insurance claim through to be fixed.
If you took all the lonely old people, the ethnic megabreeders, the sicknotes, the 'problem' families, the cousin
shaggers having three eyed kids and all the other lame ducks the NHS babysits at MASSIVE expense out of the equation
and you'd find plenty to go around. I'd be impressed if they started calling out some of the bullshitters abusing the
service and denying them treatment.
I've had two NHS appointments this year, both cancelled on the day of the appointment.  Mainly down to
admin staff blunders I should add, but if a person who's entire purpose is to sit there and make appointments all day
is incapable of getting that right then frankly I fear for the competency and frankly the accountability of
the rest of them. You know the 'marvellous' NHS who saw both my grandparents off once they were in hospital.
The wondrous NHS who prescribed the wrong drugs to one of my best friends for a blood disorder and as a result he is
now hearing aid deaf in both ears. The same "fantastic" NHS that misdiagnosed his condition when that same
friend was suffering from endocarditis? The result of which he suffered a stroke and a collapsed lung? That NHS?
As for your other point, Well yeah, better treatment should have a higher price. Have you ever been for private
treatment Percy? It's a markedly different experience, no sitting room full of coughing sick notes, no health tourists,
no unemployed in there getting themselves signed off from working. Very few elderly. So if you're asking would I pay
more to be seen at the actual time of the appointment? Yes. Would I pay more for a consultation that lasts longer than
90 seconds where the healthcare professional at least pretends to give a shit. Why again, yes I would.
Let's go on. Would I pay more to not have my appointment cancelled pretty much as i was putting my
coat on to go out and attend it not once but twice on the trot. Oh did I mention I waited six months for each of those
appointments, just to have them cancelled? I think it's 3 for 3 here so pardon me if I'm excused the standing ovation
for the fucking NHS. In my experience, they are pretty shit. But then again I'm a white bloke who pays for his own
prescriptions so that's exactly the user experience intended for my filthy ilk.
So, do I trust the NHS to come through should I really need them? Maybe in a first response scenario but I wouldn't
hold my breath given the whole thing this thread is about. Otherwise, well no, not really. So I find it necessary to
pay for private healthcare separately. Now I'm a complete breadhead blah blah etc as has been pointed out many times
before, so ask yourself why I would I hand over a significant sum each year for me and the wifes joint BUPA plan if the
fantastic NHS which I could use for "free" was even remotely fit for purpose.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 111 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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