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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 24 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourte wrote:
What's surprised me over the whole mess is that the press were within the law in naming the pair.
Where my anger comes in is the likes of the mail calling them morons but with a question mark - basically covering their arses from libel action.

Wasn't there that nurse who was arrested on suspicion of killing a load of babies (and named) who was later released. I wonder what her future job prospects are.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 24 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Fourte wrote:
What's surprised me over the whole mess is that the press were within the law in naming the pair.
Where my anger comes in is the likes of the mail calling them morons but with a question mark - basically covering their arses from libel action.

Wasn't there that nurse who was arrested on suspicion of killing a load of babies (and named) who was later released. I wonder what her future job prospects are.


Another is that footballer who initially got done for rape but on appeal was acquitted. He struggled to get a club to sign him and Jessica Ennis-Hill even threatened to withdraw consent for her name to be used on a stand if the club signed him.

There is a lot to be said for anonymity until found guilty although that still wouldn't have protected the above..
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 24 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourte wrote:
What's surprised me over the whole mess is that the press were within the law in naming the pair.

Interesting if true. The police didn't release the names, and in fact they said they greatly appreciated the pair's cooperation. The pair are now claiming they feel violated but it's likely journalists will be receiving solicitor's letters. The media will respond by bleating about their right to free speech, which they happily abuse.
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 24 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:


Please don't tell me if the police have made a mistake (which happens all the time, we are all people and do mistakes) and the whole 3 days circus was for nothing they will admit that to the public and say:

"Sorry all the delays were due police mistake"

Not a fat chance without proper public enquiry.


Should they have just fitted up the crawley two then, to make themselves lool good and serve up a mr and mrs bogeyman?

The delays were due to some cunt fucking around with a drone, for reasons not yet in the public domain.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 24 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Another is that footballer who initially got done for rape but on appeal was acquitted. He struggled to get a club to sign him and Jessica Ennis-Hill even threatened to withdraw consent for her name to be used on a stand if the club signed him.

There is a lot to be said for anonymity until found guilty although that still wouldn't have protected the above..

Well yeah, at least he was actually convicted, and as with the metoo stuff there will always (rightly or wrongly) be extra attention if there's a 'celeb' involved. What I don't get is how an ordinary member of the public can be arrested then named.

In certain situations, for example you're found with a knife and a pile of bodies then yeah maybe name them, but when it's an allegation or a suspect... err suspect it seems strange.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 02:27 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Fourte wrote:
What's surprised me over the whole mess is that the press were within the law in naming the pair.

Interesting if true. The police didn't release the names, and in fact they said they greatly appreciated the pair's cooperation. The pair are now claiming they feel violated but it's likely journalists will be receiving solicitor's letters. The media will respond by bleating about their right to free speech, which they happily abuse.


I refer people to my comment in another thread about gagging orders only being for the benefit of rich people.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The press for decades were very much self regulating when it came to their behaviour. About 20 or 30 years ago they were bollocked for that behaviour and the press agreed to change things. The result was a new organisation was created to make the press behave - same people, same layout and same lack of bollockings of the press. The only thing that was changed was the monitoring organisations name.
(So sorry I can't give direct quotes as it's something I remember that's all)

The mentions of rich and all that crap: I bet people didn't realise that the law was recently changed in the UK whereby only the rich of the country can now afford to sue for defamation and other similar things?
That's right, our lovely right wing government actually handed their friends, the right wing press, some favours. They created laws which mean that only those with £20k or more free cash can afford to drag an organisation through the courts.
Add that last bit to how the press self regulate and just as badly and you can see why London needs to burn down.
(Not really - I'm simply pointing out laws which sneaked in under the radar)
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fourte wrote:
The press for decades were very much self regulating when it came to their behaviour. About 20 or 30 years ago they were bollocked for that behaviour and the press agreed to change things. The result was a new organisation was created to make the press behave - same people, same layout and same lack of bollockings of the press. The only thing that was changed was the monitoring organisations name.
(So sorry I can't give direct quotes as it's something I remember that's all)

The mentions of rich and all that crap: I bet people didn't realise that the law was recently changed in the UK whereby only the rich of the country can now afford to sue for defamation and other similar things?
That's right, our lovely right wing government actually handed their friends, the right wing press, some favours. They created laws which mean that only those with £20k or more free cash can afford to drag an organisation through the courts.
Add that last bit to how the press self regulate and just as badly and you can see why London needs to burn down.
(Not really - I'm simply pointing out laws which sneaked in under the radar)


People say there isn't enough money for the NHS, and people don't want to pay higher taxes, so there isn't enough money for people to use it suing newspapers for hurt feelings in cases that typically can't be proven anyway. Nothing to do with "favours for right wing press", it was just as much a favour to the hard left press. Then again you are free to give your own money to people if you like.

It's raining, I blame the Tories Wink
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
People say there isn't enough money for the NHS, and people don't want to pay higher taxes, so there isn't enough money for people to use it suing newspapers for hurt feelings in cases that typically can't be proven anyway. Nothing to do with "favours for right wing press", it was just as much a favour to the hard left press. Then again you are free to give your own money to people if you like.

It's raining, I blame the Tories Wink

Why did they change the employment tribunal rules then (which was later challenged and overturned)? The Tories do the same thing over and over again, cut spending in areas that impact the working classes the most, and reduce the rights of the peasant folk so that they're nothing more than subservient service droids.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
People say there isn't enough money for the NHS, and people don't want to pay higher taxes, so there isn't enough money for people to use it suing newspapers for hurt feelings in cases that typically can't be proven anyway. Nothing to do with "favours for right wing press", it was just as much a favour to the hard left press. Then again you are free to give your own money to people if you like.

It's raining, I blame the Tories Wink

Why did they change the employment tribunal rules then (which was later challenged and overturned)? The Tories do the same thing over and over again, cut spending in areas that impact the working classes the most, and reduce the rights of the peasant folk so that they're nothing more than subservient service droids.


Legal Aid? Who raped that? Torys or Labour?
Just that I saw it as a massive shit on the heads of Joe Public that one. They really don't like it when the poor have a voice or some power.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if that was rhetorical but (if not) take a wild guess Smile 'The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Prosecution of Offenders Act, passed in 2012, had been expected to save £450m a year in real terms — but last year spending was down £950m compared with 2010'.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Why did they change the employment tribunal rules then (which was later challenged and overturned)? The Tories do the same thing over and over again, cut spending in areas that impact the working classes the most, and reduce the rights of the peasant folk so that they're nothing more than subservient service droids.


As opposed to public spending that is mostly for the upper classes you mean? Public spending generally is only there for the working and middle classes.

Why cuts? Not enough money I suppose. We are spending more than we have coming in which ultimately means the next generation has to pick up the tab.

But anyway this thread has nothing to do with legal aid. These people would be safe(r) from the press with a high court gagging order, which are available only to the rich I agree, and I don't think were ever available publicly funded (legal aid) under Labour or the Tories. MY preference is for nobody to be named until convicted, hence no gagging order required Wink
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 25 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
We are spending more than we have coming in which ultimately means the next generation has to pick up the tab.

Shhh!
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M.C
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PostPosted: 01:16 - 26 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Why cuts? Not enough money I suppose.

Yet there's for pensions (apparently) and we can't be that hard up as we ignore tax dodgers even when they're great c**ting corporations. The Tories make cuts that affect people that don't vote for them, and vice versa for Labour, it really isn't that hard to understand.

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
But anyway this thread has nothing to do with legal aid. These people would be safe(r) from the press with a high court gagging order, which are available only to the rich I agree, and I don't think were ever available publicly funded (legal aid) under Labour or the Tories.

Gagging orders haven't been that effective from what I recall...

RyanGiggs.jpg
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 26 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Yet there's for pensions (apparently) and we can't be that hard up as we ignore tax dodgers even when they're great c**ting corporations. The Tories make cuts that affect people that don't vote for them, and vice versa for Labour, it really isn't that hard to understand.


You'd have to ask Phillip Hammond Very Happy
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 27 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:

Legal Aid? Who raped that? Torys or Labour?
Just that I saw it as a massive shit on the heads of Joe Public that one. They really don't like it when the poor have a voice or some power.


I thought it was funny having legal workers protest cuts while claiming they were concerned about justice for the poor.
If that was the case then why weren't they demanding legal material be free for all and the legal monopoly they enjoy to be ended?

Quote:
We spend seven times more on legal aid than the French: £2bn Britain spends each year dwarfs every other country in Europe

Britain’s spending on legal aid dwarfs that of every other country in Europe
It is 20 times European average and more than seven times that of Germany
Average spending per nation on legal aid in 2012 was £96million
Government pushing through controversial reforms to cut legal aid budget
Council of Europe warns that this could breach criminals’ human rights


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2787276/We-spend-seven-times-legal-aid-French-2bn-Britain-spends-year-dwarfs-country-Europe.html
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 27 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
The media will respond by bleating about their right to free speech, which they happily abuse.


They are also quite happy to attack the peoples right to say what they want.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 28 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:


I wonder how much of that legal aid is gifted to illegal immigrants to fight their asylum cases?

You’re not telling me they fork out for their own legal representation and translators surely?


Obviously Laughing

Free house + free legal aid + benefits

Front of the queue for housing. It makes sense though as these are the people the government cares about the most.
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 28 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good chunk is actually funded by charities, given the kicking that legal aid has taken under firstly Failing Grayling, and then continued cutbacks under the Tory gov.

Still, don't let facts get in the way of a good immigrant bashing on a topic about Gatwick drones. Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by Jewlio Rides Again LLB on 13:15 - 28 Dec 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 28 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:

Still, don't let facts get in the way of a good immigrant bashing


We won't Thumbs Up
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 28 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Anything top back up these "facts"? All I see is a personal opinion, dressed up as fact.

How about some real fact. Legal aid for immigration costs the tax payer around £11,000,000 a quarter.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/720647/legal-aid-statistics-bulletin-jan-mar-2018.pdf


Probably more to back it up than you have about Saint Tommy being exonerated by a judge?

Why don't you publish the complete legal aid budget, and breakdown into what goes where? I'll wait Pass the popcorn

Whilst we're at it, why don't you also publish the fees that the solicitor gets for each bit, so we can also dispel the myth that they're all on a good number? I'll wait for that too Pass the popcorn Pass the popcorn
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 28 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:


Still, don't let facts get in the way of a good immigrant bashing on a topic about Gatwick drones. Rolling Eyes


Oh we won't Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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