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Polarbear
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 Posted: 17:06 - 28 Dec 2018  Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: |
Isn't it funny; it took the thing we all hate - religion- to get these built. Perhaps their upkeep should all be taken on by English Heritage and/or The National Trust - the cathedrals at least.
Now what do we build? Glass and steel monuments to the god of money. And they're all so boring. Although, I must admit, in certain light, the skyscrapers of the big cities can look quite impressive, but they'll never match the detailed gothic stonework and soaring spires of a cathedral for sheer beauty, and never mind the stunning decorativeness of the interiors.
There are some skills we should never have allowed to disappear, but I wonder what it would cost to build such now? Kings of old virtually bankrupt entire nations to build their castles once upon a time, but an intricate cathedral must have been at least as expensive - relative to size, I imagine far more so.
Anyway, what motivation, what use could we possibly have for such constructs today?
I think I was born in the wrong era  |
Totally agree.
Look at some of the buildings we have - The Palace of Westminster (Parliament), The wonderful castles all round the country. Some of the amazing stately homes.
Even the railway stations the Victorians built are stunning.
And Crossness sewer pumping station (below) is stunning. FFS it (was) a fully operational sewer pumping station in the Victorian era, look at it.
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/F2MDKC/the-octagon-at-the-centre-of-crossness-sewage-pumping-station-south-F2MDKC.jpg
Can you imagine anyone saying the Gherkin should be a listed building.
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Diggs
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| Posted: 17:45 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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That is beautiful!
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andys675
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 18:16 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| andys675 wrote: | many texts mention being in the wilderness for years or up a mountain starving, at which point they must have been so hungry that they ate the mushrooms, and then they were visited by God who spoke to them?
tldr, all religions are the result of someone's mushroom trip |
Eventually, Ghostie's gonna have the religious experience to beat em all 
Except, I don't think a BCF BBQ site quite matches the solitariness found in the mountains. Although, having said that, some couldn't get any higher 
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M.C
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 18:30 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | | andys675 wrote: | many texts mention being in the wilderness for years or up a mountain starving, at which point they must have been so hungry that they ate the mushrooms, and then they were visited by God who spoke to them?
tldr, all religions are the result of someone's mushroom trip |
The most feasible explanation I've heard  |
I think it may have started when man tried to explain the natural phenomena he saw around him, coming to it with no scientific understanding whatsoever. Religion didn't begin with any of the major versions we know today, but there were whole pantheons of gods for all the things early man, early civilisations saw around them.
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M.C
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 21:26 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | I thought early religions were just vague customs and beliefs*, then the major ones were all about converting people, silencing dissenters, you know the kinda shit that generally leads to bloodshed.
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The ancient Greek and Roman religions were more than vague customs and beliefs. Their civilisations were largely built on their gods and what they stood for.
The Romans in particular didn't mind who or what others in their empire worshipped, as long as they sacrificed to the Roman gods too, and paid their taxes of course. But they did finally clash spectacularly with the Jewish religion in about AD66. That was about Nero trying to raise the finances to build his ideal Rome though, and his procurator in Judea not caring how he went about raising funds from that province.
In the mid-300s BC, I don't think I ever read about Alexander trying to convert the people of the lands he conquered to the Greek beliefs system either. In fact, I think Alexander saw, for e.g., the gods of the Egyptian people and saw their equivalents in his own religion.
Of course there were established religions elsewhere before that too, and I think they were taken very seriously, the Egyptians themselves having a very intricate series of beliefs that influenced all aspects of their daily lives too.
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M.C
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| Posted: 22:48 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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Its always the Romans with you   |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 23:22 - 28 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | Its always the Romans with you |
Yeah, don't know why I'm interested in such an obscure period of history 
I mean, what did the Romans ever do for us?
Oh yeah, they passed Christianity on to the western world...knew there was something relevant here
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Diggs
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| Posted: 02:30 - 29 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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I dearly wish that I held religious values, so I could debate them with you Philistines.
As it stands, the closest we have is Mdma and his ultra right-wing Christianity. He will doubtless deny his beliefs, but his ideologist gods are all that way out, so I look forward to his comment.
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 13:02 - 29 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| Diggs wrote: | I dearly wish that I held religious values, so I could debate them with you Philistines. |
Don't be so hard on yourself. After all, you know who Vic and Bob are
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 13:39 - 29 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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I'd add that I think some will just have made their beliefs a more private matter, which is fine by me. But a decline in religious belief is also fine by me. The question is, what will people replace religion with, if anything? Science? Materialism? Religions have given us many of our values and morals, or at least promoted them. Is it just that they don't need to be propped up artificially anymore? Or is it even that such values and morals aren't even relevant or necessary anymore?
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 14:27 - 29 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: |
I dunno, most religious people I know like to shout about it. |
Perhaps that's how you know about those ones 
| Quote: | You don't need religion to have morals or values If you need a book to tell you thou shalt not kill then there's something wrong with you in the first place. |
What do you need then? Schools? Parents? What if killing someone sets you at an advantage in some way? Why shouldn't you? How will you know why you shouldn't? In many of our inner cities, youngsters often don't seem to know. Is it just the knowledge that society will punish you if you do (if you get caught)? Is that enough? It doesn't seem to be, does it?
| Quote: | The problem with the world (IMO) is a lack of responsibility and awareness, religion is a major cause of this. |
Why are people responsible for others? Awareness of what? The consequences? What are the consequences of killing someone if you aren't caught?
I think to say religion is responsible for all lack of awareness or responsibility is wrong, too general (and you know how I hate generalisations ). In many cases, in many times and places, it has been the major promoter of such. Sure, it has been used often in conflict, caused conflict. But it is all about interpretation.
I think religion had a very important role in society. My question is, how, in modern times, do you take those parts which are good (promotion of values) without all the sky fairy worship, which many of us here in the west disdain now, and make them meaningful to those who have no religious, as we traditionally understand the word, beliefs? Not all people are what we might consider as decent honest citizens at heart. There is always the darker side of man's nature.
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Polarbear
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M.C
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| Posted: 14:46 - 29 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | What do you need then? Schools? Parents? What if killing someone sets you at an advantage in some way? Why shouldn't you? How will you know why you shouldn't? In many of our inner cities, youngsters often don't seem to know. Is it just the knowledge that society will punish you if you do (if you get caught)? Is that enough? It doesn't seem to be, does it? |
The stereotypical black gangbanger (I assume that's what you mean) is religious. Are you suggesting moar Jebus will save them?
| chickenstrip wrote: | Why are people responsible for others? Awareness of what? The consequences? What are the consequences of killing someone if you aren't caught?
I think to say religion is responsible for all lack of awareness or responsibility is wrong, too general (and you know how I hate generalisations ). In many cases, in many times and places, it has been the major promoter of such. Sure, it has been used often in conflict, caused conflict. But it is all about interpretation.
I think religion had a very important role in society. My question is, how, in modern times, do you take those parts which are good (promotion of values) without all the sky fairy worship, which many of us here in the west disdain now, and make them meaningful to those who have no religious, as we traditionally understand the word, beliefs? Not all people are what we might consider as decent honest citizens at heart. There is always the darker side of man's nature. |
Being responsible for your own actions, unlike parts of the world where people jump in motor cars, and drive like nutters because it's in gods hands Awareness comes from asking questions, not being fed a set of bullshit answers from a young age which rather than helping people only makes them extremely narrow-minded.
I don't. Religion has held us back for thousands of years.
| Polarbear wrote: | I think I prefer some of the morals and rules that have come from Christianity than some of the total lack of morals and rules that seem to be prevalent now. |
Like homosexuality being a sin? |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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| Posted: 16:26 - 29 Dec 2018 Post subject: |
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I'm not saying you are. I'm just saying that whilst homosexuality is such a sin in the eyes of many of the older congregation, the sexual abuse of boys, by men, does not appear to be the same? 
In my opinion, that's actually worse, given queers are generally consenting adults. But that's just my opinion on the matter.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 132 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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