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Garden building, planning permission?

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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Garden building, planning permission? Reply with quote

I have come by a 5m x 6m prefabricated concrete building with a dual pitched roof, which I want to put in my garden, for storage/motorbike storage/tinkering. It will have a tin roof over OSB, and probably a concrete floor.

I would rather put the building closer than 2m to one boundary, so I run into the 2.5m max height restriction if the building is to be "permitted development". The building is 2.65m high to roof ridge. However, the ground naturally slopes a little.

The higher ground is where the close boundary is. I would have to cut away the natural slope to make a flat base, and then the height measured from the ground at the high point to the ridge line would be below 2.5m

The building will:

Be in the grounds of a house.

Not be on "designated land"

Not be "within the grounds of a listed building".

Not bring the total area of land around the original house covered to 50%.

Be "Substantially non-combustible".


Any ideas whether this is OK? The "interactive.planningportal.co.uk" does not seem to mention anything about sloping ground, and https://planningjungle.com/wp-content/uploads/Part-1-of-the-GPDO-The-10-Worst-Permitted-Development-Loopholes.pdf (example 2) seems to imply it's OK.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606669/170405_Householder_Technical_Guidance__-April_2017_FINAL.pdf

Read the bit relating to 'Height' on page 6.

If you are still struggling, note that Local Authorities apply their own interpretation when things aren't clear-cut, so you can either go ahead and take the risk, or ask the Local Authority for a determination under:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/8/section/192

Don't rely upon things like Planning Jungle as it is wank.

If you draw me a plan with elevations and a cross-section showing 'natural' ground level on either side of the boundary I can give you a view, but mine may differ from the Councils depending whether the particular Officer's piles are playing up that day.

Hope this helps.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606669/170405_Householder_Technical_Guidance__-April_2017_FINAL.pdf

Read the bit relating to 'Height' on page 6.

“Height”... Where ground level is not uniform (for example if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building.)

That seems to me to indicate the height would be OK, if digging out about 20cm is OK. There is a slight step in level at this point anyway, as I put up a climbing frame there about 15 years ago, but it would have to be increased (or spoil piled up on the lower end to make a flat base).

Diggs wrote:
If you are still struggling, note that Local Authorities apply their own interpretation when things aren't clear-cut, so you can either go ahead and take the risk, or ask the Local Authority for a determination under:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/8/section/192


That seems to be "What I can do in my shed". It will (I hope!) house my motorbike collection (7 or 8; not all, if any, in use) and tools, a rotavator and garden tools plus odds and ends. It won't be accessible by anything wider than about 1 metre. It won't be used for any business use, only DIY.

Diggs wrote:
Don't rely upon things like Planning Jungle as it is wank.

There are lots of other wanky sites "out there" too by the look! I've been looking.

Diggs wrote:
If you draw me a plan with elevations and a cross-section showing 'natural' ground level on either side of the boundary I can give you a view, but mine may differ from the Councils depending whether the particular Officer's piles are playing up that day.

Hm, difficult. The "close boundary" is a 4/5' "interwoven panel" fence in poor repair, which those on the other side say is mine, but my (old) deeds indicate is theirs. On the far side of it (from my perspective) is a line of conifers which are trimmed to make a high hedge about 3.5m tall, which have been there for over 25 years. The ground I can see on "their side" (about 1m through the hedge) is at about the same level as the height of the adjacent area of my garden. So, in the picture I attached, ground level on the other side seems to continue at the same level as it is on my side (at the bottom of line "X").

Diggs wrote:
Hope this helps.

Thank you, it does. I had not thought about whether or not my proposed use would be legitimate. I'll have to think on it.

The local council will not, it seems from their website, say "Yes it's permitted development" or "No", which is a bit of a poser. Unsure how to get it OK'd, the last thing I want is to spend my hard-earned on something that will have to be moved.

Would any photos be useful?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 31 Dec 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photos are always good. If you pm me the address I can look on Google Earth too.

Re. use. Provided your use is ancillary to the main use as a dwelling (and keeping your own bikes plus garden equipment is), then no change of use will occur so you don't need to worry about that element.

Question - is what you are proposing wholly within the domestic curtilage? In simple terms, is it all going to be within the garden as it was on 1st July 1948, or if the house was built later, at that time instead? If the answer is 'no' or if the land was added to the garden at a later date, then the Council could reasonably argue that it isn't permitted development.

Ignore what the Council says about not telling you if it is permitted development or not. You can force the Council to tell you by applying under the 's.192' procedure I referred to earlier. Note that you will need to pay a fee to the Council of £103 for the pleasure.

Advantage of not finding out - you save the £103 plus the cost of preparing the s.192 Application.

Disadvantage - you may build something that needs planning permission and have to go through the enforcement process at greater cost. Plus, if you come to sell the house, a canny purchaser's solicitor will use it against you.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 01 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Question - is what you are proposing wholly within the domestic curtilage? In simple terms, is it all going to be within the garden as it was on 1st July 1948, or if the house was built later, at that time instead? If the answer is 'no' or if the land was added to the garden at a later date, then the Council could reasonably argue that it isn't permitted development.


Yes. Land was actually removed from the property for development, but this will be entirely within the part of the land remaining. I will PM.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 01 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
I will PM.


PM sent.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 04 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the neighbour likely to kick-up a fuss? If not get I'd on with it -unless there's anyone else likely to dob you in...
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 04 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Is the neighbour likely to kick-up a fuss? If not get I'd on with it -unless there's anyone else likely to dob you in...


Neighbours are always likely to dob you in.

When we had our shed put up (15 x 10), within a week we had the council sniffing around. Luckily I'd already got written permission that it was fine to erect, no electrics, building control etc. As we have a large garden and didn't take up over x amount of space.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 04 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
If not get I'd on with it -unless there's anyone else likely to dob you in...


I wouldn't personally. Unless i was happy to demolish if made to do so by the authority. It happens. And it happens
to much bigger and more valuable developments than a bike shed. My wifes studio is over 4 metres tall at ridge height
and is a metre from the dividing fence. Even with planning approved the neighbours got arsey when they realised after the
build had begun, just how tall a poledance studio needs to be. By which time it was tough titties of course, but consider
how that would have gone without the planning permission if they had made the quick call to the clipboard wielding
busybodies in the council planning office. They don't like being circumnavigated and will be deliberately obstructive
just to demonstrate their power. Take it from me, I've just coughed up £400 for new drawings for this years planned
extension to my house because the monkeys at planning couldn't approve the addition of a side door on my garage to be
unless they had a drawing. Couldn't understand what I meant by "door" I think and needed a picture. Rolling Eyes Unfortunately,
you have to play their game. I live in a Liberally run authority and lets be honest, they hate people getting on in life
and improving their own net worth. The original extension I wanted was full height, but they wouldn't let me have it
after £££s spent on surveys and drawings. "Not in keeping with the character of the street" they said. I live opposite
a double width extended house and every house in a 10 house radius of mine is different due to having had different levels
of extension work done.

Right then I realised they make it up as they go along. And can turn down an application basically just because
they feel like it, or rather more accurately, not had a look at it at all within the 8 week window so point blank refusal
just to be sure. Easier to let the mug applicant pay for even more drawings and resubmit than keep on top of their workload.
I'm an ex council employee, I know the mindset, "why do today what we can do tomorrow" so I'm far from surprised by this.

Not my favourite people the planning dept at BANES. Middle Finger
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