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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 18 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
We have close up images of rocks on Mars

Nah - all fake, mate
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 18 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is turning into an interesting thread.

Quote:
Because of its 'mascons,' the Moon has only four "frozen orbit" inclination zones where a lunar satellite can stay in a low orbit indefinitely.

Quote:
a mass concentration (or mascon) is a region of a planet or moon's crust that contains a large positive gravitational anomaly. In general, the word "mascon" can be used as a noun to refer to an excess distribution of mass on or beneath the surface of an astronomical body

https://i1.wp.com/www.skepticalraptor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/moon-cheese.jpg
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Lunar subsatellites were released on two of the last three Apollo manned lunar landing missions in 1971 and 1972; the subsatellite PFS-2 released from Apollo 16 was expected to stay in orbit for one and a half years, but lasted only 35 days before crashing into the lunar surface. It was only in 2001 that the mascons were mapped and the frozen orbits were discovered.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_concentration_(astronomy)
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 18 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
Good stuff!

That makes a bit of sense of it.

Thanks, but Pjay's last two posts said it best. It's already been established that there's nothing more there worth looking at.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 18 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


Didn't I read somewhere DairyLea had bought the mining rights for the cheese core of the moon off NASA but the Chinese are now contesting their right to sell it as they are on the moon now?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 18 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 CPT wrote:
How does that make a difference? Why have we never had orbiters or craft orbiting the moon within 20,000ft?

It has no atmosphere and very little gravity, so you'd like to have thought we could have mapped the much smaller moon's surface with a bit more like the detail we can map the entire surface of planet Earth to.


Dig dig diggity dig...

First, understand orbital mechanics, then understand some of the major issues involved in stupidly low orbits.

"Low lunar orbit (LLO)—orbits below 100 km (62 mi) altitude—are of particular interest in exploration of the Moon, but suffer from gravitational perturbation effects that make most unstable, and leave only a few orbital inclinations possible for indefinite frozen orbits, useful for long-term stays in LLO."

Now, even assuming you could discount the masscon and gravitational problems at 20,000 feet (6154m) you would need a velocity of 2.5km/s to maintain a circular orbit which given that the escape velocity from the surface of the moon is 2.38 km/s, you are going to have serious problems Laughing

Orbiting a body at that low an altitude is just impossible unless you use something like a forced orbit and for that, you're going to have to carry a very significant mass of fuel to maintain the necessary delta v.

50km is a very low orbit indeed. The LRO is a pretty amazing mission overall.

Here, have a JCB - it'll be quicker Razz
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Chinaboy
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 19 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:



We have nothing at all to learn from the moon, we have samples of the terrain and plenty of pictures taken on the surface. Some high res pics from miles away are of no use to them.


Because the aliens don't want us there, it's their home Shocked
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 19 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chinaboy wrote:
Because the aliens don't want us there, it's their home Shocked


Yeah, must be that.

*backs away smiling and nodding*
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So NASA couldn't have sent auto-landing stuff there, to give a bit of backup to the lie?

The camera that films the landing (rough as shit footage, because that made it easier to obfuscate), then the camera outside after the landing, no blast crater, no dust in the foot-pods.

The Hasselblad camera boss who said he had no way to explain how the pics of an astronaut with his back to the sun could have come out so clear unless there were very powerful lights illuminating the front of the astronaut.

On and on. Van Allen radiation belt, not survivable.

The evidence is overwhelming. Did you know, if you speed up the footage of them driving and jumping around on the moon by 100% it looks exactly like they're driving around in earth gravity? They halved the speed of the footage. The crudity of the scam and all the mistakes they made is what's so incredible about 'the moon landings'. Lol. But the old adage, "tell a big enough lie and nobody will question it" was certainly true. It fooled the world for years.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd forgotten about the Van Allen belt. Two bands of intense radiation which is so bad that astronauts could barely see because of bright spots of varying size obscuring their vision.
Have you ever seen video footage or stills taken near radioactive sources and there are millions of dots speckling everywhere? Yeah go through that belt and it's that but for humans.
I've read that it's so bad they attempted to shield their heads from it using water inside sheets - just so they could grab some sleep - it happens with eyes open or closed.

I've seen some compelling images which show men on the moon, the dark background etc. By upping the contrast people have been able to show the studio it was shot in. The building has regular flat walls with a domed top.

Yeah yeah get myself a foil hat but like I've said, some could well be real but a lot isn't.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the pictures from the moon have dark background and no stars (except the Sun) only because of exposure of the camera. The moon is very bright and reflective object, you may even see that every single night, when the moon is in an appropriate positions.

If they landed on the dark side of the moon and took pictures of the ''sky'' you'd see all the stars and probably other planets. They would also die, because of the very low temperatures, but that's besides the point.

Also, do not forget the time, when they were there. Most of the wide shot pictures are going to be composites. Just like every single picture of the planet Earth taken from the orbit.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Apollo missions marked the first event where humans traveled through the Van Allen belts, which was one of several radiation hazards known by mission planners.[32] The astronauts had low exposure in the Van Allen belts due to the short period of time spent flying through them. Apollo flight trajectories bypassed the inner belts completely, passing through the thinner areas of the outer belts.[25][33]

Astronauts' overall exposure was actually dominated by solar particles once outside Earth's magnetic field. The total radiation received by the astronauts varied from mission to mission but was measured to be between 0.16 and 1.14 rads (1.6 and 11.4 mGy), much less than the standard of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year set by the United States Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity.[32]
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
The Apollo missions marked the first event where humans traveled through the Van Allen belts, which was one of several radiation hazards known by mission planners.[32] The astronauts had low exposure in the Van Allen belts due to the short period of time spent flying through them. Apollo flight trajectories bypassed the inner belts completely, passing through the thinner areas of the outer belts.[25][33]

Astronauts' overall exposure was actually dominated by solar particles once outside Earth's magnetic field. The total radiation received by the astronauts varied from mission to mission but was measured to be between 0.16 and 1.14 rads (1.6 and 11.4 mGy), much less than the standard of 5 rem (50 mSv) per year set by the United States Atomic Energy Commission for people who work with radioactivity.[32]


So they say. Lots of 'facts' and 'figures' thrown around, all essentially meaningless to people who have problems working out their household bills. The weight of evidence that the landings never happened is overwhelming. There's simply too much of it for it to be a nut-job conspiracy theory.

But who gives a shit, it's not like any govt hasn't lied through its teeth when it's suited a purpose.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Lots of 'facts' and 'figures' thrown around,

Yet you're prepared to take Van Allen Belts as fact because you can weave them into what you want to believe. The Americans must be kicking themselves for inventing the Van Allen Belts, eh?

Have this one for free.

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/05/9457444081_bc307af0fa_z.jpg


Last edited by Kawasaki Jimbo on 14:00 - 20 Jan 2019; edited 1 time in total
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
But who gives a shit, it's not like any govt hasn't lied through its teeth when it's suited a purpose.

Why would the soviets be in on the lie? They won the space race except for this one apparent lie Thinking
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


''The original photograph was taken on 6 February 1972 and showed the crew of Apollo 16, Lunar Module Pilot Charles M. Duke, Commander John W. Young, and Command Module Pilot Thomas K. Mattingly II, during a training exercise at the Kennedy Space Center''

But, I'll play on...
https://www.duckrabbit.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/moon.jpg
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Islander
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
So NASA couldn't have sent auto-landing stuff there, to give a bit of backup to the lie?


Yes but that wouldn't have allowed men to be photographed or the rovers or any of the science experiments.

Hetzer wrote:
The camera that films the landing (rough as shit footage, because that made it easier to obfuscate), then the camera outside after the landing, no blast crater, no dust in the foot-pods.


The camera mounted on the landing leg was a low resolution TV camera, the high rest stuff was carried by the astronauts.

Why would there be a blast crater? The LEM landed on solid lunar regolith covered by a layer of fine dust. Which sums up the flatter lunar surface. Why would there be dust on the foot pods? There's no wind to blow it there and the stuff kicked up by landing would have been blown away from the LEM.

Hetzer wrote:
The Hasselblad camera boss who said he had no way to explain how the pics of an astronaut with his back to the sun could have come out so clear unless there were very powerful lights illuminating the front of the astronaut.


Simple. Sunlight reflected back off the lunar surface - much the same as you'd get on a beach but with no atmosphere to interfere.

Hetzer wrote:
On and on. Van Allen radiation belt, not survivable.


Which is why the Apollo mission planners arranged the command module's orbit to spend the minimum amount of time inside the Van Allen belts. Nonetheless, the astronauts did pick up some extra radiation but not enough to affect their health.

Hetzer wrote:
The evidence is overwhelming. Did you know, if you speed up the footage of them driving and jumping around on the moon by 100% it looks exactly like they're driving around in earth gravity? They halved the speed of the footage. The crudity of the scam and all the mistakes they made is what's so incredible about 'the moon landings'. Lol. But the old adage, "tell a big enough lie and nobody will question it" was certainly true. It fooled the world for years.


The scientific evidence that debunks the conspiracy theories is even more overwhelming and supported by repeatable facts.

I'll give you three simple examples of why the conspiracy theories are nonsense.

1. The missions were tracked by amateurs, scientists and governments worldwide. There were far too many people involved in the various aspects of both the missions and tracking to keep a lid on any fakery. They went there, they returned.

One of the governments watching with a very keen eye was the Soviet government. If there had been any fakery that would literally have given them the biggest propoganda coup of the century - do you honestly think they wouldn't have used that to their advantage? Really?

2. There was an experiment performed on camera live on the surface of the Moon that could not have been repeated on Earth. David Scott , the Commander of the Apollo 15 mission tested Galileo's famous experiment by dropping a geological hammer and a feather from the same height. Being no atmosphere to add resistance, they struck the lunar surface at exactly the same moment.

By the way, I'm fully expecting you to claim some mass trickery with this one but why would they? It's pointless.

3. The lunar rocks that were returned to the Earth and given out to research institutes all over the world. Nothing but nothing could fake the effects of billions of years of exposure to hard vacuum and cosmic radiation. There's no rock like it on Earth - similar, yes as in a basalt is a basalt but the subtle differences introduced by environment make them very different indeed.

As I said before critical thinking is a very good thing but it has to be backed by reliable information - not dogma based on dislike of a culture/government or whatever. Think man, think. Very Happy


Last edited by Islander on 17:45 - 20 Jan 2019; edited 1 time in total
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
Lots of 'facts' and 'figures' thrown around,

Yet you're prepared to take Van Allen Belts as fact because you can weave them into what you want to believe. The Americans must be kicking themselves for inventing the Van Allen Belts, eh?

Have this one for free.

https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2017/05/9457444081_bc307af0fa_z.jpg


They must have trained to hold their breath for quite a long time for that shot.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
So NASA couldn't have sent auto-landing stuff there, to give a bit of backup to the lie?


Yes but that wouldn't have allowed men to be photographed or the rovers or any of the science experiments.

Hetzer wrote:
The camera that films the landing (rough as shit footage, because that made it easier to obfuscate), then the camera outside after the landing, no blast crater, no dust in the foot-pods.


The camera mounted on the landing leg was a low resolution TV camera, the high rest stuff was carried by the astronauts.

Why would there be a blast crater? The LEM landed on solid lunar regolith covered by a layer of fine dust. Which sums up the flatter lunar surface. Why would there be dust on the foot pods? There's no wind to blow it there and the stuff kicked up by landing would have been blown away from the LEM.

Hetzer wrote:
The Hasselblad camera boss who said he had no way to explain how the pics of an astronaut with his back to the sun could have come out so clear unless there were very powerful lights illuminating the front of the astronaut.


Simple. Sunlight reflected back off the lunar surface - much the same as you'd get on a beach but with no atmosphere to interfere.

Hetzer wrote:
On and on. Van Allen radiation belt, not survivable.


Which is why the Apollo mission planners arranged the command module's orbit to spend the minimum amount of time inside the Van Allen belts. Nonetheless, the astronauts did pick up some extra radiation but not enough to affect their health.

Hetzer wrote:
The evidence is overwhelming. Did you know, if you speed up the footage of them driving and jumping around on the moon by 100% it looks exactly like they're driving around in earth gravity? They halved the speed of the footage. The crudity of the scam and all the mistakes they made is what's so incredible about 'the moon landings'. Lol. But the old adage, "tell a big enough lie and nobody will question it" was certainly true. It fooled the world for years.


The scientific evidence that debunks the conspiracy theories is even more overwhelming and supported by repeatable facts.

I'll give you three simple examples of why the conspiracy theories are nonsense.

1. The missions were tracked by amateurs, scientists and governments worldwide. There were far too many people involved in the various aspects of both the missions and tracking to keep a lid on any fakery. They went there, they returned.

One of the governments watching with a very keen eye was the Soviet government. If there had been any fakery that would literally have given them the biggest propoganda coup of the century - do you [/i]honestly think they wouldn't have used that to their advantage? Really?

2. There was an experiment performed on camera live on the surface of the Moon that could not have been repeated on Earth. David Scott , the Commander of the Apollo 15 mission tested Galileo's famous experiment by dropping a geological hammer and a feather from the same height. Being no atmosphere to add resistance, they struck the lunar surface at exactly the same moment.

By the way, I'm fully expecting you to claim some mass trickery with this one but why would they? It's pointless.

3. The lunar rocks that were returned to the Earth and given out to research institutes all over the world. Nothing but nothing could fake the effects of billions of years of exposure to hard vacuum and cosmic radiation. There's no rock like it on Earth - similar, yes as in a basalt is a basalt but the subtle differences introduced by environment make them very different indeed.

As I said before critical thinking is a very good thing but it has to be backed by reliable information - not dogma based on dislike of a culture/government or whatever. Think man, think. Very Happy


The man is obliviously playing the Devil's Advocaat. Smile
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 00:38 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


Hetzer wrote:
The Hasselblad camera boss who said he had no way to explain how the pics of an astronaut with his back to the sun could have come out so clear unless there were very powerful lights illuminating the front of the astronaut.


Simple. Sunlight reflected back off the lunar surface - much the same as you'd get on a beach but with no atmosphere to interfere.



The Hasselblad guy had that offered to him as an explanation, he said "No, not possible". He was THE company expert on the cams.

And all the dust got blasted clear, eh? No vortices, pull-back, floating debris that settled from above...nice shiny spotless foot-pods after that shit-storm of dust. LOL!

Slo-mo footage that just happens to scale up PERFECTLY at double-speed to 100% normal earth movement. Yeah, what a coincidence. Along with all the other coincidences.

Nobody gives a flying fuck anymore about a bunch of tourists having supposedly walked on a rock 250k miles away from earth. Big fucking deal. Meanwhile millions were starving right here on earth while Big Jeb was masturbating his rocket and showing how much better apple pie is than borscht. Woopee doo. Real? Nobody cares. Fake? Nobody cares. Mankind's 'greatest achievement'? Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

"1. The missions were tracked by amateurs, scientists and governments worldwide. There were far too many people involved in the various aspects of both the missions and tracking to keep a lid on any fakery. They went there, they returned."

Says who? You read it on the internet? Lol.

They also said ham radio nuts tracked the transmissions as NOT coming from the moon. "Atmospheric disturbances" or some such explanation was given. It was even put into the movie (Capricorn One or whatever). You can read that on the internet too.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
The Hasselblad guy had that offered to him as an explanation, he said "No, not possible". He was THE company expert on the cams.

Interesting. Original source please.

Hetzer wrote:
Nobody gives a flying fuck anymore... Big fucking deal... Woopee doo. Real? Nobody cares. Fake? Nobody cares.

You care.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why we cant have nice things.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

And yet Hasselblad themselves have a whole section about their cameras in space and on the Moon.

Oh wait, it’s on the internet.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 22 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did someone mention moon rocks not fake?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html

Took 50 years for people to suss that it was fake. All the radiation etc..

I still say that some was actual moon landings but a lot was footage made on Earth.
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