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General Election - who woud you vote for and why?

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MCN
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
The largest number of closures by far, 93 pits, were closed under Harold Wilson in the 60s. The next highest closure period took place under Jim Callaghan in the 70s.

Mrs Thatcher didn't take office until 1979 when 22 pits closed during her tenure in the 80s. Labour's closures far exceeded those of Mrs Thatcher.

These statistics were printed in the Chronicle on January 27, 2005. The last pit in the North East to be closed, Ellington, was closed under Labour. The last North East shipyard to be closed, Swan Hunter, closed under Labour.



I can never forgive Labour for devastating the country.


Be careful who you forgive.

We have no National Industries now who contributed millions to the state.
Millions that was used to pay the pensions folk had worked years to appreciate in retirement.

We are about one week away from being unable to pay pensions.

There were people on ALL sides who are complicit in the ravage of Britain.

It's wrong to suggest one team is any worse than the other shower of idiots.

And Thatcher was a relentless cunt.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Brexit isn't a deciding factor either. Basing a vote entirely on Brexit is immensely short sighted.

How so?


Because each party has so many other policies that need weighing up for consideration.

Tories have dressed themselves up as the Brexit party, but, as an extreme example, what if they also had plans to slash the state pension by 50%.

Would Brexit supporting pensioners still vote Tory just because they want Brexit that badly?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Would Brexit supporting pensioners still vote Tory just because they want Brexit that badly?


Get the meat and veg out of the way, then you can decide what you're having for pudding.

You see it in Scotland. A lot of people vote SNP but wouldn't want the SNP to be in charge of an independant Scotland.

UKIP is another prime example. People voted UKIP to come out of the EU but wouldn't want them to be in charge of the country after we came out.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
The largest number of closures by far, 93 pits, were closed under Harold Wilson in the 60s. The next highest closure period took place under Jim Callaghan in the 70s.

Mrs Thatcher didn't take office until 1979 when 22 pits closed during her tenure in the 80s. Labour's closures far exceeded those of Mrs Thatcher.

These statistics were printed in the Chronicle on January 27, 2005. The last pit in the North East to be closed, Ellington, was closed under Labour. The last North East shipyard to be closed, Swan Hunter, closed under Labour.

I can never forgive Labour for devastating the country.


Exactly, and if you aren't voting Tory because of Thatcher then you can't vote for anyone new Labour as they have literally the same policy! Those Labour and Tory governments were just unfortunate enough to be in power when the problems occurred.

It's hard to see heavy industry ever coming back with all those greenies around. They want high energy prices which immediately rules out heavy industry. The best we could settle for is medium manufacturing like electronics manufacturer, processor fab plants etc.

stinkwheel wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

Brexit isn't a deciding factor either. Basing a vote entirely on Brexit is immensely short sighted.


No it isn't. It's the single most important political decision of this century for the future of the UK.


And if remain wins then it doesn't even matter who wins the UK elections as in the medium term all the decision will be made in Brussels anyway.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

Would Brexit supporting pensioners still vote Tory just because they want Brexit that badly?


Get the meat and veg out of the way, then you can decide what you're having for pudding.

You see it in Scotland. A lot of people vote SNP but wouldn't want the SNP to be in charge of an independant Scotland.

UKIP is another prime example. People voted UKIP to come out of the EU but wouldn't want them to be in charge of the country after we came out.



Rubbish, the people of Bonnie Scotland vote SNP because of Mel Gibson.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Tories have dressed themselves up as the Brexit party, but, as an extreme example, what if they also had plans to slash the state pension by 50%.

Would Brexit supporting pensioners still vote Tory just because they want Brexit that badly?

May found out to her cost that you don't piss off the grey vote Folded arms

AFAIK the decline of industry was happening regardless, Thatcher just came in at the end and made sure it was dead Smile It's more her other policies, selling off social housing, Canary Wharf/the banking sector/widening the gap between rich and poor.

My comprehensive assessment of how things were would be:
Thatcher/Major = shit
New Labour = slightly less shit
Tory Coalition = shit again

The only way I'd vote for anyone is if they actually gave a f**k about ordinary people, and that would mean Brexit, reducing immigration, building housing, spending on schools. Does any party like that exist, or do they all treat ordinary folk with disdain? Neutral
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Tories have dressed themselves up as the Brexit party, but, as an extreme example, what if they also had plans to slash the state pension by 50%.

Would Brexit supporting pensioners still vote Tory just because they want Brexit that badly?

May found out to her cost that you don't piss off the grey vote Folded arms

AFAIK the decline of industry was happening regardless, Thatcher just came in at the end and made sure it was dead Smile It's more her other policies, selling off social housing, Canary Wharf/the banking sector/widening the gap between rich and poor.

My comprehensive assessment of how things were would be:
Thatcher/Major = shit
New Labour = slightly less shit
Tory Coalition = shit again

The only way I'd vote for anyone is if they actually gave a f**k about ordinary people, and that would mean Brexit, reducing immigration, building housing, spending on schools. Does any party like that exist, or do they all treat ordinary folk with disdain? Neutral


Apparently we need immigration because our population is dwindling.

We do not have enough kids to support growth.

The Caflicks were right. Smile
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grr666
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

We do not have enough kids to support growth of the public sectors pension pot.

FTFY.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Apparently we need immigration because our population is dwindling.

We do not have enough kids to support growth.

The Caflicks were right. Smile

Not sure if serious but for anyone who hasn't worked it out for themselves, that is a total lie...

https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/3606498/original.jpg

And it's happening in other countries as well, for example Canada, many shortages, 1 million extra people needed over the next 3 years...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Population_Canada_ver_4.png

I'm actually starting to believe the conspiracy theorists as there's no logical reason for this. Even if you take into account an aging (baby boomer) population, when they're gone then what, we have an even bigger aging population, and need more people? At what point does that become unsustainable?

We're basically accelerating our own destruction Neutral
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
MCN wrote:
Apparently we need immigration because our population is dwindling.

We do not have enough kids to support growth.

The Caflicks were right. Smile

Not sure if serious but for anyone who hasn't worked it out for themselves, that is a total lie...

https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/3606498/original.jpg

And it's happening in other countries as well, for example Canada, many shortages, 1 million extra people needed over the next 3 years...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Population_Canada_ver_4.png

I'm actually starting to believe the conspiracy theorists as there's no logical reason for this. Even if you take into account an aging (baby boomer) population, when they're gone then what, we have an even bigger aging population, and need more people? At what point does that become unsustainable?

We're basically accelerating our own destruction Neutral


Most of that increase is due to immigration. If kids replaced parents at replacement rate of ~2 then population would be stable. I think the replacement rate is 2.1 or 2.2 or something probably to account for people dying earlier as kids, 20s or 30s.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 20 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe in the replacement ratio theory, but my point was more there are countries that show a decline in population numbers, Germany and Ireland for example. They could justify further immigration with that statement, in the UK and I cited Canada as I came across something the other day, you can't say that with a straight face.

It seems insane to be concerned about replacing people when there are already too many people in the first place, or in the case of immigration import a load more people to pay for the previous lot. It's like one big ponzi scheme.
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F0ulOli
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

While there is nobody worth voting for, you still have to vote.

You scribble on a few of the choices, and spoil your vote and then you count.

If you don't, your vote disappears.

A spoilt vote counts as a none of the above, where not voting doesn't count - a 30% turnout is still a turnout, where as 70% spoilt votes would count as part of the percentage who didn't vote for the winner.

Of course, most people can't be arsed and the politicians win again!
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never Voted labour in my life but I would so I could personally cancel out MPD's vote for whoever.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
The largest number of closures by far, 93 pits, were closed under Harold Wilson in the 60s. The next highest closure period took place under Jim Callaghan in the 70s.

Mrs Thatcher didn't take office until 1979 when 22 pits closed during her tenure in the 80s. Labour's closures far exceeded those of Mrs Thatcher.

These statistics were printed in the Chronicle on January 27, 2005. The last pit in the North East to be closed, Ellington, was closed under Labour. The last North East shipyard to be closed, Swan Hunter, closed under Labour.



I can never forgive Labour for devastating the country.


Yesss!!
You have fallen into the pit of manipulated views. Let me educate you..
Mine closures. Just what is a 'mine closure'? The mine closed, or rather was mothballed. The reserves (royalty) for that mine were left untapped and could be won again if they re-entered at a later date. The majority of 1960s closures were just that.
New Hartley (Hastings) Pit closed in the 1960s. The mine was mothballed.
Firstly the New Hartley miners - they were used to open new reserves in Northumberland (your biased statistics fail to mention mines opening..). The men went to sink a mine called Longhirst Drift. It was incredibly successful. Some miners stayed there and others were transferred to other mines - yes miners were not paid off. Labour ensured that people remained employed in either what they currently did or went straight to other schemes. With New Hartley/Longhirst my Dad chose to leave after sinking was completed and went straight to road construction. He helped build some incredibly useful roads in the North East. My Dad managed a concreting crew who mostly laid drains but would be called upon when old mine workings were uncovered. His specialist knowledge allowed shafts to be capped etc.
Back to mothballed Hastings Pit. A mines reserves were calculated via boreholes. The calculations allowed for 20 years production - they always knew where the coal was, how much, quality and for 20 years. Hastings pit was mothballed (in favour of other reserves) with 79 million tons of known reserves @ 20 years production. Imagine that - one mine and just 20 years of proven reserves. Coal did not run out - modern mining methods were allowing access to massive reserves further beneath the sea.
That's just one mine.

Basically mine closures for the most were to allow access to easier quicker reserves until money or machinery allowed access to the big stuff.
Did you know there's a 16 foot thick coal seam stretching beneath the North Sea from Norfolk to Denmark? No crawling on hands and knees, no subsidence to land above. Easy coal..

The politics of those times would make sure that people could move from job to job and thus remain in employment, be useful, earn a DECENT wage, feed a family etc. Politics now is just greed, power grabbing and self serving politicians. They care nothing about the people. They've allowed a real mess to grow and it stinks.
At least if this was communist Russia and you were injured they'd send you straight for medical fixes. The reason being you're more useful working than not - a fair way of thinking IMHO. The UK fails to fix people, allows them to rot, sanctions benefits because those people get more poorly and can't do as the DSS asks and people die. FFS it's fucked in this country.

Fingers are on fire here. Stopping because I'm doing a Teff.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Typed Lots
Fingers are on fire here. Stopping because I'm doing a Teff.


Where the fuck is Da Teff anyway?

Did he get cleaned out in the infamous visor-wipe scandal along with Wogerburg and Metastasis too?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
I don't believe in the replacement ratio theory, but my point was more there are countries that show a decline in population numbers, Germany and Ireland for example. They could justify further immigration with that statement, in the UK and I cited Canada as I came across something the other day, you can't say that with a straight face.

It seems insane to be concerned about replacing people when there are already too many people in the first place, or in the case of immigration import a load more people to pay for the previous lot. It's like one big ponzi scheme.


The other thing is you have to have jobs for these immigrants to work in before they start paying to support the pensioners/system. Real jobs that pay. Not cleaners on 0 hours contracts being subsidised by the tax payer.

Large immigration means suppressed wages. We need jobs where the workers are paid a decent wage and then contribute via the tax system, it isn't going to happen any more in this country.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Re: General Election - who woud you vote for and why? Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
There simply isn't anybody to vote for come the next General Election.

Am I alone in thinking this?


It depends on when the next election is, and what has happened between now and then, as well as the policies of each party. Three scenarios for you.

Were the election tomorrow, considering parties standing previously in my area:

Conservative: X Mostly obeying the "leave the EU" instruction.
Green: No chance. Against leaving the EU.
Labour: No. Against fully leaving the EU.
Lib Dem: No chance. Against leaving the EU.
UKIP: No. For leaving the EU, but powerless.

Were the election at the scheduled time, and we had left the EU:

Conservative: Probable. They got us out of the EU.
Green: No. Environmental policy OK, bulk of rest of policy detail unacceptable.
Labour: Possible, depending on their evolution.
Lib Dem: No.
UKIP: No. Mission accomplished.

Were the election at the scheduled time, and we had NOT left the EU:

Conservative: Possible, depending on how & why Brexit failed.
Green: No chance. Pro-EU.
Labour: No. They would have played a large part in the failure of Brexit.
Lib Dem: No chance. Pro-EU.
UKIP: Vaguely possible, depending on their "associations" and availability of any single-issue, inclusive alternative.
Anti-EU: Possible, see "Conservative". I would consider voting for a single-issue anti-EU party, moderate, inclusive and flexible on other issues.

I hope there aren't any triping errers of omissions above.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

F0ulOli wrote:
While there is nobody worth voting for, you still have to vote.

You scribble on a few of the choices, and spoil your vote and then you count.

If you don't, your vote disappears.

A spoilt vote counts as a none of the above, where not voting doesn't count - a 30% turnout is still a turnout, where as 70% spoilt votes would count as part of the percentage who didn't vote for the winner.

Of course, most people can't be arsed and the politicians win again!

I disagree. Spoiling your ballot paper still counts as endorsing the system, you're still on their mong *sniggers* democracy list. Drawing a cock on your ballot paper and being a part of a statistical irrelevance isn't fighting the system.

Polarbear wrote:
The other thing is you have to have jobs for these immigrants to work in before they start paying to support the pensioners/system. Real jobs that pay. Not cleaners on 0 hours contracts being subsidised by the tax payer.

Large immigration means suppressed wages. We need jobs where the workers are paid a decent wage and then contribute via the tax system, it isn't going to happen any more in this country.

I don't think it's a secret that mass immigration is about flooding the market with cheap labour, if they really were all rocket surgeons, and genuine contenders for 'elite' jobs they'd stop immigration in a heartbeat.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it came to a general election before Brexit, for the first time i would actually look at the canditates personal statements and take no notce of party.

If some one was a remainer, I wouldn't vote for them whichever party. If someone was a staunch Brexit, I would.

(except the Black Pig, I wouldn't vote for her ever, ever, ever, ever)

(ever)
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
If it came to a general election before Brexit, for the first time i would actually look at the canditates personal statements and take no notce of party.

That sounds like a radical statement Very Happy

A relative voted Conservative for the first time "to keep Jeremy Corbyn out"... great except it was a local election Rolling Eyes
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is all interesting. Looks like many of you are in the same boat as me. It used to be that people voted the same way for decades without really thinking about it, but that has changed. This must be the one positive consequence of the Brexit shit-shower, in that the electorate is thinking again...
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
This must be the one positive consequence of the Brexit shit-shower, in that the electorate is thinking again...

The main parties seem to be entrenching themselves, and losing a lot of traditional voters. Labour might get the message after another decade in opposition.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's becoming ever clearer that the majority of politicians just aren't listening to the voters.

I hear Farage has registered a new party.....
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
It's becoming ever clearer that the majority of politicians just aren't listening to the voters.

I hear Farage has registered a new party.....


They seem to have forgotten they are elected to look after their constituents and put forward their wishes, not their own.
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Hawkeye1250FA
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 21 Jan 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


They seem to have forgotten they are elected to look after their constituents and put forward their wishes, not their own.


Which is one of the reasons Brexit came about. (imo) Laughing
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