Write offs. Would you buy.

[Skudd]

I'm looking at getting what was a 10 plate BMW on a 57 plate frame. The 10 plate was written off because of frame damage and old cat D. has been rebuilt on a 57 plate frame and is registered as the older bike. Its been done by a proper mechanic and the owner of the garage has used it as his own for the last year. It will have a 12 month MOT. It is priced as a 57 plate and looks ok.

What are the pitfalls? Will there be issues in the future regarding any insurance claims ( I hope not to claim though ) What about selling it on in a few years time> I doubt I will sell it as I keep my bikes for a while.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[M.C]

Does the 57 plate flag up anything? If so no problems if you trust the spanner monkey who did the work.

EDIT: I'd want it very cheap, it doesn't sound cheap if it's priced the same as a bike a few years older

[A100man]

In the eyes of the law, insurers etc.. its a 57 plate bike. Up to you if you think it's worth it I guess the guy didn't even have to tell you...
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Teflon-Mike]

It's a second hand bike... go by the reg, it's not a 2010 bike, its a 2007, rebuilt with a lot of newer bits from a more damaged scrapper.....

Buy ANY second hand bike... you have the risk it could have been totalled in the first ten minutes out the show-room from new and damage repaired and repairs disguised as competently or as cunningly as the seller is able or inclined.... Caveot Emptor... buyer beware....

In this instance you 'know' about the rebuild... which suggest the seller is not being completely dishonest or deceiptful... b-u-t.... fact that you 'think' you are looking at a bike 3-years newer than what he's actually selling you, does suggest that they are applying a bit of 'spin' though... its an 07 bike.... that's what the log-book says, that's what a dealer would look up in the blue-book, that's what an insurance co would look up in the price guides... b-u-t... yeah, LOOK at how SHINY it is, look at all the 'new' bits...... its STILL an 07 machine that's been rebuilt...... not a 2010 model..... and as a rebuilt motorcycle.... that should be an 07 model 'standard'... question is it? Or had it been 'Modified', for instance I assume that the 2010 model would have ABS brakes.... the 07 model might not have done; if the 07 model bike you are buying has later ABS brakes, that's a modification, and probably aught be declared to insurer, same as after-market exhaust or nitros kit....

Otherwise.... you are buying the bike that is declared on the V5 registration..... so the engine and frame numbers match? Is it the colour on the log-book? Does it have after-market cans or luggage, or brakes etc etc etc....... check it over like you would any other second hand bike, AS an 07 bike....... because that is what it is, no matter how many newer parts from the scrap-yard have been swapped.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Ste]

Frame number matches with the V5?

When you come to sell it, potential buyers will be asking all the same questions you are and it would have to be suitably cheap for anyone to be interested.

It's a 57 plate bike which has been rebuilt with all(?) the parts from a 10 plate bike?

Link to the ad?

[Skudd]

The guy, dealer, has been very upfront and is selling as an 07 bike, it is also a bit cheaper that the same 07 bike elsewhere. Hopefully going to look at it tomorrow if the bloody bank clears the tax mans cheque.

It all really depends on what he give me for my 53 plate FJR 1300, 49k on the clocks with full matching luggage 10 months MOT as a part exchange. Lovely bike, just not suited to me.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[Ste]

[diesel dog]

Only worth a punt if the numbers match up.

I was under the impression that FJR's would hold there own money wise and good news to sell?
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MT10

[ThunderGuts]

I bought my ER5 as a write off (cosmetic damage only though, cat N). It wasn't hard to fix up to working. I'd think twice about a structurally damaged bike though.

Two things to think about, one of which didn't occur to me and the other is obvious;

- the obvious one, if you want to sell it again in the future, it'll be harder (and/or you'll have to drop the price significantly compared with bikes that have a clean history)

- insurance claims take ages to process, as a result the bike might have been sat around for a long time. Check the MOT history online and compare the recorded mileages with what's on the bike at the moment. Sitting not doing anything doesn't do bikes any good; mine had been sat for the best part of a year I reckon so there were issues to be dealt with (sticky brake, gummed up carb/fuel system, perished tyres). Factor this sort of thing in if the bike you're looking at has been stood for ages

Good luck - I still reckon I got a good deal on mine and I'm not bothered about the scratches as it's a workhorse.
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TG.

[Teflon-Mike]

The question of 'write-offs' is even more sticky.

The 'cat' scheme is not really of much significance; a bike will only be 'catted' if an insurance company have been involved, and deemed it a 'write-off' as in a total loss, cheaper to pay out the settlement than pay to fix... a-n-d, more they actually follow the scheme to the letter, and notify DVLA of thier, pretty arbitary, decision to 'write-off, and DVLA set the flag on the registration to 'record' that decision.

a LOT of vehicles advertised as 'Cat X' particularly motorbikes, and particularly Cat C and D (now S & N?) which require 'repair' but after flag being cleared by passing an MOT they may be returned to road, actually 'aren't' real Cat write-offs, that have been declared to DVLA, it's oft used industry 'jargon' to describe a damaged vehicle.... and less scrupulous traders might use the 'suggestion' of a cat, to explain why they dont have a log-book and or obvious damage.

BUT... a vehicle is only catted IF its declared as a write-off to DVLA....

As said a brand new bike, could be totalled ten minutes after being ridden out the show-room; there is absolutely no reason or legal obligation, that that crash should result in an insurance claim, or the vehicle being inspected and subject to write-off categorisation.... It could have been wrapped around a lamp-post, and the rider, if not too bruised, or 'mates' with a van if they are... could pull the thing out of the hedge, take it home and patch up the damage and do anything else they want to the 'wreckage'.... and for three years, until the new-vehicle MOT exemption expires NO-ONE need be told that that vehicle has been wrapped around a lamp-post, let alone the vehicle inspected in any way to check it's road-worthiness......

So.... hypothetically; two bikes, both, for sake of argument 7 years old, offered for sale.

One, was formally 'written off' by the insurance company, six months after it was new.... it was was knocked off its side stand by a woman in Ford Ka, in Sainsburies car-park. That 'collision' dented the tank, dislodged the EFI and fuel-pump wiring, cracked the fairing and bent the handlebars. The Ka driver's insurance company, geared up mainly for dealing with damage to other cars, take the decision to 'Cat' the bike and make a full pay-out, probably without any-one properly looking at the thing, let alone 'inspecting' it, because the cost of repairing the 'obvious' damage, plus the cost of inspection, is 'likely' to exceed the cost, to them of pay-out less what they might get in 'salvage'. Some-one comes along, buys the wreckage, deciding its an 'easy fix', and either bends the bars straight, plugs the EFI wiring back in and bungs it in for an MOT, or if the Ins-Co applied higher cat, cos perhaps they were worried about scratched to the ABS brake calipers or something, salvage buyer, might rebuild around another un-catted frame.. or to save some work... just swap the VIN tags with a cordless drill and pop-rivet gun!

Second one; Ten minutes out the show-room, rider panic snatches for the first GATSO they see, goes down, slides through the trap at less than trigger-speed, bike hits the gatso post, bananas the frame, and tank, looses its fairings, and bounces back into the road to just be missed by a Scania, who manages to do an e-stop for it.... and stops to ask rider if they are OK, and pull the wreckage out the opposite hedge, and mutter about the scratches on their naked lady silhouette bumper ornaments....Bike owner calls mate with a van, hauls the wreckage home, and quickly decides that even if insured fully-comp, and insurance paid out not just the second-hand market value of the bike from the blue-book, but the full show-room price.... bought on HP... moment the ins-co settled, they'd be lambed with a bill for three years credit-charges over and above the show-room price... so, following week-end, they take a trip down the breakers... or with van-driving mate, around any-where other folk park bikes, that they might nick..... and they fix up the scrapper as best as... at one end of the scale, 'ringing' a never crashed nicked bike, as the undeclared wrecker, at the other, bending enough bits straight that they can ride the thing to and from for another couple of years, before getting a 'freindly' MOT on it, and eventually flogging off... seven years old, fresh MOT..... 'never been dropped or crashed' lol.

NOW.... side by side, looking much the same, and NOT knowing the story behind either.... which do you buy?

CAVEOT EMPTOR.. buyer beware... you check the docs against the tags; you go over the bike for tell-tale signs of damage or abuse; and YOU decide whether, either, is in a condition worth handing over cash for... you don't take a thing that the seller says as anything even close to 'gospel', you weigh it up as you see it, pays your money and takes your chances..... end of.

Personally? NO! I wouldn't buy it! But then I wouldn't be in any hurry to buy any bike made this century, let alone a BMW really! Lol. I certainly wouldn't be expecting a 'bargain' and this sort of blarney about cat write offs, to me, would be just that, and hold little sway in MY decision to buy anything, one way or t'other, and suggestion that that might explain a 'low' ask price, certainly wouldn't make me any more eager to part with my money... low asks tend to mean that seller wants a quick sale... so WHY? What's wrong with it that they want to sell ASAP.... and in that, potential CAT-Write-Off is but one possible explanation; on a shaft drive Bimmer, worn out crown-wheels could be on the cards, on VFR's that expensive valve-shimming, on a garage trophy Blackbird, gummed up fuel injectors, etc etc etc.... possible imminent 'big-bills' on almost anything abound....

I mean almost anything could be 'written off' or deemed "beyond economical repair", failing its MOT on a slack-chain and bald tyres, and a few pretty basic service items, like brake pads and spark-plugs! Let alone any anticipated wear and tear, even less actual crash-damage, minor or dire! Back to caveot-emptor.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[1198]

Is there any point to made in the wall of text posted by Tef?
If so can someone condense it please to maybe just a four hour read?

[MarJay]

[1198]

[Yeti]

I have never successfully circumnavigated more than 2 lines of a Tef post and have now given up all together.

Just scroll past it!
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Lifes a Beach!

[Fisty]

[johnsmith222]

no way would I buy that bike which had been rebuilt unless it was going silly-cheap.

There's just too many unfuckered bikes to choose from to buy one that is a bit of a frankenstein.

The exception is when it goes down to being cheap enough for you not to care.

I'd want it priced less than a 57 plate.

Your current bike sounds more desirable to me than this.

[Fisty]

[Skudd]

Well I bought the bike, a BMW R1200 GS Adventure. Love it, got a fair price for the FJR against the BMUU. It already had an MOT but got another one on the day for 12 months, log book all straight and in order.
I have now gone to the Dark Side and loving it
____________________
Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

How is it better than the Varadero?
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[DJP]

If I read this correctly, it's not a write off - it's a 57 plate with later running gear.

I'd be more concerned with the insurance considering it to be "Modified" if there are major differences in spec between the model years.

But otherwise, as long as the engine and frame numbers are correctly recorded in the log book, then it's no different to buying any other 12 year old bike and the usual checks apply.
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[Ste]

Yeah, it's not a write off, it's a 57 plate bike that has had everything modified.

[Skudd]

[P.]

[M.C]

[bhinso]

Can't you read? He said Focus ST.