15HP v 11HP 125's

[AndyC1983]

Hi,

I am new to biking having completed my CBT a couple of months ago.

My plan is to get a 125 to gain a bit of experience riding and if I find I like it then go onto do my DAS in the summer.

Most of my experience would be gained on a commute into work. This is not long but does include a stretch on a straight national speed limit road (the one out of Plymouth towards Dartmoor for those who know it).

This road is uphill, dark and often foggy / wet with potholes and I would rather not be struggling up the hill at 40 mph with cars coming behind me at 60+ in poor visibility.

As such I have been looking at the 15hp (KTM Duke 125, Suzuki GSXS125 etc) rather than the 11hp (YBR etc) learner legals.

My question is, will there actually be a noticeable difference in performance between the 15hp and 11hp bikes in my situation or is skipping a 125 and doing DAS straight away the answer?

I am not so concerned with top speed but rather acceleration up to 60 on a moderate incline.

Any helpful advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy.

[garth]

I vote do DAS and pick up, say, an sv650 for less than the combined cost of the 125 and the test.
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You ain't a has been if you never was

[diesel dog]

I can't answer the 11 v's 15bhp.

Maybe do the CBT to see if you like biking and if you do, then do the DAS then you'll have no worries about traffic behind you.
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MT10

[linuxyeti]

Personally I wouldn't go straight to DAS, especially as you're new to biking. However, as you're only going to have it for a short while, I really wouldn't bother about the hp of a 125, and just get 1 in good condition that you can ride and gain road experience on. Pretty much all 125's will be good enough for A and even NSL roads.

However, the only caveat to buying a 125 2nd hand is, for the most part they have been ridden by novice's/CBT holders, probably poorly maintained, the gearbox has probably taken a thrashing, so, you need to take that into account, and possibly factor that into any cost on top of the cost of the bike. However, if you shop around, there are some 125's that have been looked after.
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Beware what photos you upload, or link to on here, especially if you have family members on them

[ThunderGuts]

Any 125 is going to be working hard to keep up with the national speed limit, factor in a hill and a headwind and seeing that drop to 40mph is quite likely. You'll become expert and tucking down as low as possible to extract every last mph though

Your size will make a difference too on a hill (!) - if you're 20 stone it'll make a massive difference on a 125 compared with if you are 10 stone. If you're a larger frame, you'll also be less aerodynamic, again slowing you down. Such things become less relevant with bigger bikes, but on a 125 it really is a case of every little helps.

In terms of the power difference, I think the rule of thumb is to get a 10% increase in speed you need a 30% increase in power or something like that, so if your 11bhp bike maxes out at 45mph on an uphill road, a 15 bhp bike is probably only going to get another 6mph on top of this . . so I don't think it'll make an appreciable difference.

Crack on with your DAS and you can take your pick then. FWIW, I didn't do any 125 riding at all apart from my CBT and I didn't find it overbearing to romp through the training with a day "conversion", a day for mod 1 (then test) and mod 2 (then test) and passed first time with them all.
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TG.

[Teflon-Mike]

If you can safely and competently 'commute' on a daily basis, you can dang well do it just 'once' to take tests and get a full licence....

if you CANT get that full licence.... then ask yourself whether it really is such a great idea to 'commute' every day, on a 125, that, at best has barely adequate performance, without the barest of know-how to know what you are about!!! CBT is but the first lesson, it is NOT a licence!!!

That hill out of Plymouth? I spent a summer down there when I was at uni, once... it was a long time agoi!!! Is it the A38? But I know the hill. And I have ridden it, on a genuine, 12bhp two-stroke 125 'sports' bike I had at the time. Believe me you will NOT be flying up that hill on ANY 125, I don't think. You could get a learner-illegal 125 like maybe a Cagiva Mito or Aprillia RS, that have over 25bhp... and you are STILL not going to likely out-pace an Audi-Enema........

Yes, there IS a noticeable performance difference between something like a YBR and something like a KTM 'Duke'.... but in the grander scheme of all bikes, it really IS small potatoes.

My 30 year old Honda CB125, has the full quota of 12bhp permitted by the 'old' learner regs. I have verifiable GPS snail-trails that show that that bike, 'can' just about do and hold a genuine 70mph, in more ideal conditions. Other genuinely Learner-Legal offerings of modern times, with possibly the full 15bhp, 'may' be capable of nudging 80 from time to time, but again only in more ideal conditions, they will not do it anywhere and every where any time you want them to, and certainly not up that hill out of Plym, with a Blitzen-Bimmer up your chuff!

More mundane 125's, like the YBR, may claim a 65mpg top speed, but 'really' again that is only achievable in ideal conditions, and 60 is more realistic top-wack, you might see more regularly, whilst many of the generic Chinky offerings (The YBR is made in China BTW), with air-cooled derivatives of old Japanese 125 engines, de-tuned by old tooling and a bit more for modern emmission controls, are often doing well to achieve 9bhp, and even if they achieve that, many are speed limited, to an Asian market 55mph top speed... and riders, often fail to achieve even that very often, loath to 'thrash' them to get it, and riding on the gears not the revs, on some misguided notion that that's what you should do, especially if coming from cars where with a surfit of power, these days many are taught to drive like that 'for emmissions'.... which is an argument that is rather nebulous even in a car.... but still.

Little thought for you.... I recall getting stuck behind many a ballast lorry or farmers tractor 'barely' inching its way up that climb.... a 125 motorbike is NOT the slowest thing on the road..... and going faster is rarely if ever any 'safer'....

On so many counts the very question is showing so much nievity and optimism....

Yes, having an Audi trying to give you an enema is not nice.... and as a novice on any bike, not just a learner on a 125, it can be even more uncomfortable, because sat on a bike, that's probably only five feet long, less than a foot from the mirrors, with nothing around you or between you and that audicoch.. they ALL seem to be tail-gating you regardless..... and to be honest many are, because even if they aren't trying to intimidate you cos of the red-rag-to-the-bully-driver L-plate on the back, little obeys the "Two-Second-Rule" these days and maintains prescribed following distance.... but, compounding it, its almost certain that YOU will feel more intimidated still, because you don't have a safety cell around you, and from your perspective they will 'feel' a heck of a lot closer than they really are... and on low-powered little bike, even more frustrated you cant open the tap any to open to go any faster....

It is really a non-issue... picking a KTM or an R125 over a YBR, REALLY wont make a truck load of difference very often if at all.

If you WANT to make a difference.... ?Go do that DAS.... NOW not in umpety months time, get the learning to do stuff 'right' right at the start, and not have to try and learn from your own mistakes, that tend to come hard and painful and expensive on a bike!

Get the full licence via DAS, you can pick any bike you like, and as hintimated, on a full licence, the 10, 12 or 15 bhp they may have on an L-Plate, or possibly even the almost 30bhp theat learner-illegal sorts 125's might boast, is slim pickings; the quickest of the quick 125's are still only about as powerful and fast as a 30 year old Honda 250 air-cooled single 'commuter bike' like the CB250RS, or a CB250 'twin' or even a 27bhp two-stroke loonie bike like an old Suzuki X7 or air-cooled RD250..... that would still likely struggle to stay ahead of an Audi-Enema on that hill.... BUT, with a full licence you could pick almost any 'big-bike' and something like even a boring-as-feck reputation Kawasaki ER5, with a2 licence limit 45bhp, is a 120mph motorcycle (in ideal conditions) and will be able to hold 50 or 60 much more comfortably, far more often....

But STILL... even on a 120bhp hyperbike, you will get Blitzen-Bimmers trying to give you an audi-enema.... even at licence loosing velocities...... like I said, going faster is rarely if ever any 'safer'.... so its a question of learning how to spot'em, and how to deal with them, which is rarely to try do what you think they want and go faster, but learn to ride your bike and your road, your way, and mininise the hazard other traffic might be to you..... which comes from training and experience, and just a little dialing in the mind-set... NOT from what bike you may or may not pick from the brochures, or what them brochures may suggest are its vital stats by way of power and speed.

If its any solace/consolation/inspiration..... thirty years on, and I would be a tad concerned of tackling that hill, now.... with all the experience I have garnered in that time, and the qualifications to tackle it on the 125 duper-seam or my Seven-Fifty, or even, I would say, my four frigging litre V8 Range Rover! And that makes hill climbing feel a 'breeze' with the low gears and low down 'torque' the thing has! It would do that hill at the posted limit, with spare to be had! I wouldn't be so concerned trundling up that climb of getting a Hino ballast truck try remodel my parcel shelf, but, risk of an Audi Enema would still be there! And having them SMIDY me on the M5.... you would think it would be rather hard NOT to spot something that big and regular shaped, wouldn't you?

But there in lies. I seem to recall that bit of road goes two-lane, the nearside essentially a crawler lane, on the steepest length of that hill. On any bike, or in the Rangie, I would like as not be in that crawler lane, following the Hino's up at 30, letting the audicochs get on with it in the outer over-taking lane.... the Seven-Fifty, or the Rangie? Both have the 'grunt' to get in that outer-lane and join the audicochs games, and both could probably out-pace them... but? First rule of self defence? No wanna get hit, no go where fist be! No one says you have to go up that hill, or if you do, get into the game with the audicochs... and on the 125? Find a Hino and shelter in its wake!

Take your pick and pays your money.... BUT if that DAS is on the menu anyway.... may as well go get it over and done with, and get the know-how from it and be able to put it to use from the start, as well as put it to use on a likely much more powerful motorcycle.

If you HAVE to persist with the 125? Well they can be very very useful machines, and as training tools they do have a lot to offer making you learn to work for the little they offer..... BUT, absolutely no reason you have to ride one, or try and commute on one.... and if you insist on going it alone, on L's to get the experience? Think long and hard.... there's good experience and bad experience, and there's experience you can actually learn from..... and you are essentially trying to make it up as you go along, and you will only learn from your mistakes.... if you survive them! AND can work out, not just what you did wrong, but what you should have done to do it 'right'....

Your call... BUT, if you are up to commuting, you are up to taking, and passing tests.... if not up to tests, you probably aint up to commuting.... go ponder.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[ThunderGuts]

[Riejufixing]

[M.C]

Are you new to the roads? If you have driving experience I'd lean towards maybe going straight for a DAS course. It depends how your CBT went and generally how you deal with test nerves, some people fail Mod 1 multiple times.

If you were good at slow speed control and generally alright on your CBT you should be fine. The problem with 125's it's a lot of money for a few months experience, and you will be sick of the thing after a few months.

A full power 125 will be better but still slow as f**k You'll have a slightly higher top speed which will help on NSL roads, but I wouldn't buy a high mileage R125 over a YBR just because of the powahhh.

[stevo as b4]

[P.]

Definitely DAS, but also wouldn't bother looking at new top end 125s.

[M.C]

Paddy as you're here, Varadero 125 or ER5?

[Ste]

[P.]

[Jmoan]

[Teflon-Mike]

[ThunderGuts]

[AndyC1983]

Thanks for the replies.

The general consensus seems to be that there will be some difference between the 11 and 15 Hp 125's but not enough of one for what I want.

I have booked myself in for my theory test and will go the DAS route rather than getting a 125.

Thanks again.

[RAYK47]

my 2pence worth.

I cant comment on the differences in HP but i dont expect it will make much difference.

I currently have a Honday CB125F and for pottering to th etrain station in the morning and zipping around town it is great. Fuel consumption is great, its fun and acceleration is fine. Top speed is where is lets you down.

However as someone who has gone the 125 route before doing his full test (booked in April). I can say that is is definitely helping, getting this practice in before my test is priceless. Yes its a smaller lighter bike but everything is in the same place as a 600cc and road craft is also exactly the same.

I will find out if i can handle the additional weight etc of a big bike when i start my lesson. But honestly i am not expecting it to take long to get used to, there are smaller and weaker people than me riding large tourers etc.

My advice would be (and i have given this to a friend in a similar predicament), have a lesson on a big bike and see how you get on. If you master it quickly then you should be fine. If you find it difficult then why not get a second hand 125 for a few months to get the practice in? You probably wont lose much on it anyway.

[Ste]

[RAYK47]

[Riejufixing]

[bhinso]

Not half as much as the price difference.

[RAYK47]

[Riejufixing]