|
|
| Author |
Message |
| Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear
Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
   |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| thx1138 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
thx1138
World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Karma : 
|
 Posted: 15:52 - 06 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
 |
|
| M.C wrote: |
The way I see it, which I've already said, is if you're in company uniform, sitting there waiting for a job, you're working. Deliveroo seem to have changed the way they pay their self-employed employees which might tell you something. I believe thx1138 does Deliveroo so he could tell us but there's a discussion |
I do earn money as a deliveroo cyclist.
I don't wear any issued uniform, or use the kit they gave me. I bought my own food courier bag as it's better, the coat is rubbish - unless cycling in your own personal sauna is your thing. I don't want any Deliveroo logo about my person as I work, as it reduces the amount of random abuse that is hurled my way. I do wear a Deliveroo cycle hat, I bought it myself, has the company brand under the peak, so I can flip the peak up for security cameras etc - makes my life easier.
I am a member of the union, but don't really care about the self employment status a whole lot. There are a few issues that need fixing in my opinion, but employment status isn't top of my list.
The paid per hours riders have hard time if they reject an order. If I don't want to do something, I reject it.
I start work at 5pm today. If I decide I can't be bothered, I could just sack it off. It would affect my stats, my % of late cancellations would go from zero to about 2 or 3%. Nothing would happen. I'd work tomorrow.
I have to work Fri,Sat,Sun nights if I want the pick of the time slot bookings at 11am on a Monday morning. By 3pm there is nothing left.
In some cities, it is just a free for all log in, not done on time slots.
The furthest I have cycled with a single order recently, is 9 miles round trip for £7. I like the long orders, but they go to moped riders usually.
Sometimes they offer order incentives, short version they guarantee me £8 an hour if I don't reject orders.
Long version, they guarantee me 2 orders and hour, and over the course of a week, if I do say 40 hours, that's 80 orders. If I've only done 50 they owe me 30x£4 of orders. When this is in operation I book 40 hours or more, much of it from 11.30am to 5pm. But if I reject an order they'd take £4 off. If they then offer me the same order again and again, and I keep rejecting, it's £4 each time. Which sucks. When it's no in operation, I mostly work weekends and rush hour.
Im just registering with Uber eats too. Waiting for all the security mumbo jumbo to get sorted, might see if Stuart of Just Eat are available.
I just don't want to do this on a motorcycle though.  |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C
Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| thx1138 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
thx1138
World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear
Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| thx1138 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
thx1138
World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Karma :
|
Posted: 17:15 - 06 Feb 2019  Post subject: |
|
|
I used to help run a Citizens Advice, I got shouted at, a lot.
When I turn up with peoples food, they don't shout at me. They are usually pleased to see me, or at the worst indifferent. I don't want to go back to an office job, and I do want flexibility. The only security I want, is for the companies to not be able to just terminate peoples contracts "or supplier agreements" for no reason, with no recourse.
So, yeah as a self employed person I have few rights. But, I am fairly well versed in statutory employment rights for employees, and having them is one thing, successfully enforcing them another entirely.
Many private care companies for example, will pay peanuts, and lead their workforce on a merry dance, so that they work very long hours for less than minimum wage, and make it nearly impossible to do anything about it. Basically, they can let anyone go for pretty much any reason within 2years of being there.
This doesn't mean that I don't think there are things that need changing in the gig economy, but I really do not want to be a company employee I want to stay as a self employed person myself. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| M.C |
This post is not being displayed .
|
M.C
Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015
Karma :
|
| Posted: 17:27 - 06 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
IIRC you said you paid off your mortgage years ago? You're in a slightly different situation to the (mainly young) guys in London who need £600-800 just to pay for their room/bedsit. I realise they're in the wrong job... probably city as well  I'm just saying I don't think a lot of them have an alternative, and the same rights/structure as other employees in similar jobs would benefit them. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| thx1138 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
thx1138
World Chat Champion
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Travis Bickle |
This post is not being displayed because the poster is banned. Unhide this post / all posts.
|
Travis Bickle
Banned
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Karma :  
|
| Posted: 19:34 - 06 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
|
|
| iooi wrote: | Not sure I would call Deliveroo a viable company
Started 2013 and has yet to make a profit......
Interesting you argue about worker rights and a fair wage. Yet don't give a dam about the fact they are using riders who lack the correct road skills.
Which to be fair is 99.9% of their job.... |
Ok so they're not showing a profit but they're still employing people / keeping people in work (however you want to phrase it) who will all be paying tax and the company will also be making national insurance contributions for any employees (and they will have x amount of employees, even if the majority of their workforce are self-employed).
| iooi wrote: | Interesting you argue about worker rights and a fair wage. Yet don't give a dam about the fact they are using riders who lack the correct road skills.
Which to be fair is 99.9% of their job.... |
When did I actually say that I don't give a damn? I started out saying that I agree they should all be properly licensed however I appreciate it makes things that much more difficult to keep people employed in these roles so kinda a catch 22 and I can see things from both sides. I never said anything to indicate I don't give a damn.
| M.C wrote: | Green made the same argument, about creating jobs/wealth when he was lining his own pockets. Mike Ashley does the same, as do Amazon. I don't think its an argument that justifies dodging tax and treating employees badly. As discussed earlier Deliveroo benefit from not paying national insurance. |
I see. Ok thanks for explaining what you meant. Well we all want to line our own pockets, it's not fair to criticise the head of a multinational multi-billion pound organisation for wanting to line their own pocket. That's what they're in it for. No one man (or woman) is a charity. Treating their workers badly... yeah I kinda get that, Amazon have had some really bad press regarding how they treat their warehouse staff including timing them on their toilet breaks etc. and giving disciplinary measures if they take too long or if they're caught chatting to colleagues while working etc. which is outrageous. Also the unrealistic targets imposed on their delivery drivers. It kinda just keeps bringing me back to the thought, though, that if you don't like it do something else. That's probably a really simplistic and arrogant way to look at it but if I were being treated badly by a place I'd be straight out the door and, if I had a case, down the employment tribunal route. I certainly wouldn't be going on strike or protesting and blocking the streets up trying to make everyone else's life a misery.
As for the tax thing, also I never said it was ok for big businesses to avoid paying tax. It's ok for me to do it, but not for them to do it  This has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make about workers rights / working conditions / going on strike / protesting etc. Tax avoidance is never ok in my book. Unless you're a cab driver who lives in Yalding.
| thx1138 wrote: | I do earn money as a deliveroo cyclist. |
See, here's someone who actually does it and he's not complaining...
| M.C wrote: | Ouch. That would probably take me an hour and I'd be pooped for the day The rest of it sounds more complicated than matched betting  |
I agree, 9 miles that would probably kill me! Good way to stay fit though.
BTW matched betting is easy with the correct spreadsheet setup
| thx1138 wrote: | Basically, they can let anyone go for pretty much any reason within 2years of being there. |
That's right, that happened to me when I was young (the last proper job I had before I started cab driving). They took me on and then just before the two year mark they let me go basically because they were overstaffed and because I hadn't been there at least two years I had no recourse and no redundancy pay! I had a family to support and a household to run too. I begged them to let me keep my job even if I took a pay cut because I had a household to run and a family to support I was worried I wouldn't be able to support them as the job market was very competitive at the time, but they weren't interested. They'd probably just employ someone else a few months later if things got busier again for them or if some staff left and then just sack them again just before the two year mark too just to make sure they keep all their workers under the two year mark so that they have no real rights.
That's when I started working as a self-employed cab driver for another cab firm, I was let go on the Tuesday and walked straight into my next job cab driving on the Wednesday. I thought I'll just do this temporarily to get some cash coming in while I continue to apply for jobs in the IT sector which is what I qualified for but found I really loved the job and the money you could earn was surprisingly more than I thought it would be and to be quite honest it's probably one of the best things that's ever happened to me. I'd hate to think where my life would be if I'd remained working there. No variety, no flexibility, no vibrancy, dull dull dull and shit wages.
So yeah, things definitely need to change with regards to employees' rights for sure. Being an 'employee' doesn't necessarily give you all the guarantees and benefits you think it might do.
| thx1138 wrote: | seems to me that money would benefit them more than employment rights
they could secure all the employment rights they wanted, and then find they only get paid national minimum wage, facing a 2 year slog before they'd be able to (in most not all circumstances) be able to claim unfair dismissal, and then still have to deal with how to pay the rent
in my opinion its the way rents are subsidised and in work benefits are organised that should take priority in your £600 to £800 a week bedsit scenario. |
Couldn't have put it better myself.
____________________
  Must Go Faster
1999 Yamaha FZS600 Fazer |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| stirlinggaz |
This post is not being displayed .
|
stirlinggaz
World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Jul 2007
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 79 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|
Help & FAQs
Search BCF
Members
Groups
Events Calendar
rating
rating