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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:
Again, it's too soon to tell.

Well no it's not though is it?
We are not in the 60's where our understanding of these things is beyond us. We now have chromatography and mass spectrometers that can split any substance into its constituent parts and we also know the effects these parts have on the human body.

Your complete lack of understanding about such things is apparent, so I would advise you look up on it and stop talking about a subject from a standpoint of ignorance.

Every health organisation worldwide advises that vaping is safer than smoking, I'm sure they know better than you.


Yes, the 60's are long gone. That doesn't mean we know everything just because people say so on the internet. Do you know what acrylamide is? Google that up, just for the ''it's too early to tell'' argument.

We're also still not sure on milk (healthy?), microplastics in water (is it gonna be an health issue?) added vitamins (especially vitamin C), ... and so on. Figuring out illefects on humans isn't just about puting data into a computer and pressing enter. It's also not that rare for those health organisations of yours to change their mind with higher level of knowledge on given topic.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Yes, the 60's are long gone. That doesn't mean we know everything just because people say so on the internet. Do you know what acrylamide is? Google that up, just for the ''it's too early to tell'' argument.

We're also still not sure on milk (healthy?), microplastics in water (is it gonna be an health issue?) added vitamins (especially vitamin C), ... and so on. Figuring out illefects on humans isn't just about puting data into a computer and pressing enter. It's also not that rare for those health organisations of yours to change their mind with higher level of knowledge on given topic.


https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vaping-e-cigarettes-healthier-alternative-tobacco-nicotinw-fewer-toxins-cancer-causing-substances-a7566831.html

Quote:
Other substances called volatile organic compounds (VOCs), including highly carcinogenic acrylamide and cyanide-releasing acrylonitrile, were also far less present in the bodies of e-cigarette users.


Far less. And those e-cigarette users are always ex-smokers.

Please stop posting here you incessant bore.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoked tabs, great. Thought to myself use a vape and not tabs because carrots compared to chips?
They make me cough. They make me feel shite. Vapes really do mess with things - sure they're considered safer than tabs but it's the newness of it all. Even back in the day when tabs were advertised as being for men and healthy, they knew fine well how deadly the things were and governments knew too. The reason is money and taxes. Even now tab smoking dumps huge pots of money into the NHS and it's why the government refuse to ban tabs. Imagine it - actually selling things that will kill you. They've warned us now though so it makes it OK..

Reet vapes. What folk are getting at is how as the molecules are smashed about by the heat coils, they'll basically cavitate the hot metal and place pieces of the metal into the fumes you take in.
10 years is not long enough to study them.
How long has vaping being going on? I'm sure it's a 40 year old invention?
What folk are saying is that the Chinese are not making these so that Westerners can be healthy. The Chinese are running businesses and are ruthless and will do anything to make more money/profit. Add to that the literal back yard enterprises which feed off the major manufacturers (where a lot of copies come from) and you end with no quality control. Those back yard enterprises hunt through rejected parts and either repair or sell them as originals and good. A bit like how tainted meat goes to animal feed here and not to humans.

Story time: (my memories are vague but this is the general story)
Not too long ago a student in, I think, Germany was bored. He was studying some sort of engineering and had a lot of equipment for his studies. In his room he had a Geiger counter. You know - bored and starts walking around to see what glowed in the dark. To his surprise his LED torch was incredibly radioactive. Stupidly badly radioactive. It turned out to be the spring clip to fix it to pockets which was to blame.
The torch was Chinese and as usual they'd cut corners when making the thing. I don't know the outcome. I don't know of a recall of the torches etc. It does however make me wonder just what else is stupidly dangerous like that. We buy from China and basically trust them yet with a poor track record it's not looking good.

I'll be told to go suck dick now.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty of wild speculation to be going on with there.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.

In the end I did a hard stop with any type of smoking. Vapes made me cough and tabs are evil and expensive.
I still feel that vapes will be another health problem sooner or later.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Plenty of wild speculation to be going on with there.


It's called an educated guess. Heating things up always results in chemical and physical processes inside the materials.

Did you google what acrylamide is? That represents quite nicely, how heat transforms chemical structures inside materials (food) and how long does it take for us to figure such thing out, do several verifications of the results and then publicly announce it.

What could be a speculation is that a multi billion pound business would influence such studies and legislators, but let's not go there. *cough asbestos, *cough leaded petrol, * cough...
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Pjay wrote:
Plenty of wild speculation to be going on with there.


It's called an educated guess. Heating things up always results in chemical and physical processes inside the materials.

Did you google what acrylamide is? That represents quite nicely, how heat transforms chemical structures inside materials (food) and how long does it take for us to figure such thing out, do several verifications of the results and then publicly announce it.

What could be a speculation is that a multi billion pound business would influence such studies and legislators, but let's not go there. *cough asbestos, *cough leaded petrol, * cough...


did you not look at where I showed you that the tests for people that vape show much lower traces of acrylamide than smokers?

Have you not checked that every major health organisation worldwide support vaping instead of smoking?

Have you had enough of your own idiocy?
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much of the Anti-vaping hysteria can be tied back to compnies and groups with a vested intrest in keeping people smoking. This was a while back when it was fairly new. Once they realised that wasn't going to stop people, other than in the US where they have sucessfully demonised it, they just started buying the e-cig companies (Blu, Vype etc). They're still going to make money, but not in the same way.

Time and time again scaremongering stories pop up, and are demonstratably proved false.

I have no irons in the fire - vaping or cigs could die on it's arse tomorrrow and I would just carry on as normal. But I can't stand bullshit, half-truths, manipulation and biased stories.

It's not as safe as not vaping, but it's a metric fuckton safer than smoking.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand where the yays are coming from.
(Ex Smoker)
It's the most stupid fucking people do to their self (and others) but Tax from it pays for a massive slice of the NHS.

The issue with knowing what harm it causes or not knowing is impossible to say, presently.

Vaping is relatively new. Therefore there are insufficient long-term studies.
Many drugs have been removed or their use modified after 'long-term' study revealed problems.

Vap or smoke if you wish but be fully conversent with the risks.

It is foolish to say it is less harmfull than smoking cigarets.
Its probably more accurate to say it is a less harmfull method of ingesting nicotine.

Do not poopoo the harm nicotine causes. Nicotine is the element in tobacco smoke that does the most harm.
More people die due to circulatory damage caused by nicotine than the cancers caused by constituents of the smoke.
ANd its not a swift death. They start nibbling body parts off as you go. Try to keep you alive so you can torture yourself more. Smile
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
It's the most stupid fucking people do to their self (and others) but Tax from it pays for a massive slice of the NHS.

Eh? I thought all the stop smoking campaigns were about stopping people from smoking and costing the NHS less in the long run.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
MCN wrote:
It's the most stupid fucking people do to their self (and others) but Tax from it pays for a massive slice of the NHS.

Eh? I thought all the stop smoking campaigns were about stopping people from smoking and costing the NHS less in the long run.


The Tax man's paradox. Smile

It does seem counter productive but drink and tabs pay for beds.
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Fin
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pjay,

I'm a bit annoyed I have to upload ID to their site to buy stuff, it means I can't use fake details (in case their DB ever gets hacked or they sell them on), even worse they have my ID. Then the uploader wouldn't validate it.

Very surprised to get a lovely email back full of smilies, offering live 1on1 chat on the phone AND a love heart at the end of the email.

Anyway, all sorted within 20 minutes and I've just placed the order.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
ANd its not a swift death. They start nibbling body parts off as you go. Try to keep you alive so you can torture yourself more. Smile


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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
The Tax man's paradox. Smile

It does seem counter productive but drink and tabs pay for beds.

Does booze cost the NHS/government more than they generate in tax revenue (genuine question)? I'd have thought fuel duty is the best in terms of revenue, unless you factor in everyone in major cities having 10 years taken off their life... which probably counts as a positive for the government.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
It is foolish to say it is less harmfull than smoking cigarets.


*facepalm
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
More people die due to circulatory damage caused by nicotine than the cancers caused by constituents of the smoke.

Source of that claim?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallysatel/2015/06/19/nicotine-can-save-lives/

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/long-term-vaping-far-safer-than-smoking-says-landmark-study/

Here is some light reading for people that need spoonfeeding information, they are reputable sources, but dumbed down for the idiots in our midst.
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King29
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PostPosted: 23:45 - 03 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would trust the government or government agency's 0 percent.

They told you to smoke back in the day, encouraged it even, government campaigns on the telly advising you to light up a cigarette if you had a poorly chest.

Fuck off. Eat this, it's good for you, shit; actually it's not. Do this instead, rinse and repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y_N4u0uRQ
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kerr
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know exactly what's in my vape as i make it myself, liquid, coils the lot.
Yes we may not know how bad it is for you in the long term, but we do know how bad burning tobacco is.
The only cases of nic poisoning i have seen is fuckwits drinking the stuff, im sure there are studies out there that suggest nicotine is actually good for you, don't forget flouride is poisonous in a high enough dose.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

King29 wrote:
I would trust the government or government agency's 0 percent.

They told you to smoke back in the day, encouraged it even, government campaigns on the telly advising you to light up a cigarette if you had a poorly chest.

Fuck off. Eat this, it's good for you, shit; actually it's not. Do this instead, rinse and repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y_N4u0uRQ

Isn't that 'Doctors' endorsing a brand? Like those Sensodyne dentist adverts, I doubt they particularly care. Obviously any Doctor endorsing smoking is absurd now and I think in the US people successfully sued Tobacco companies.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
MCN wrote:
The Tax man's paradox. Smile

It does seem counter productive but drink and tabs pay for beds.

Does booze cost the NHS/government more than they generate in tax revenue (genuine question)? I'd have thought fuel duty is the best in terms of revenue, unless you factor in everyone in major cities having 10 years taken off their life... which probably counts as a positive for the government.


Here's an interesting list. Not quite up to date but it shows staggering numbers despite people smoking less.

https://the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
unless you factor in everyone in major cities having 10 years taken off their life... which probably counts as a positive for the government.

Old people are expensive to keep alive. Laughing
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Here's an interesting list. Not quite up to date but it shows staggering numbers despite people smoking less.

https://the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/

It's genius when you think about it, get people addicted, then tax the shit out of them...

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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
MCN wrote:
More people die due to circulatory damage caused by nicotine than the cancers caused by constituents of the smoke.

Source of that claim?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallysatel/2015/06/19/nicotine-can-save-lives/

https://www.nhs.uk/news/heart-and-lungs/long-term-vaping-far-safer-than-smoking-says-landmark-study/

Here is some light reading for people that need spoonfeeding information, they are reputable sources, but dumbed down for the idiots in our midst.


I'm glad you dumbed that down for the hard of thinking.

Sit down FFS.
You are like one of them nutters on here who gets all out of shape and abusive when they read something that they do not agree with. Smile

E-cigarettes are less harmful than cigarettes.
That was not in question.
And using 'The NHS say they are not as harmful' is skewing the evidence by a country mile.
If you read the advice the NHS advise switching to e-cigarettes in order to help STOP smoking.


The question is, Why use nicotine? It's not big or clever it's clear evidence of weakness of character.

E-cigarettes have not been around for long enough for long term study.
Introduction in 2003 is a date quoted.

How long were studies on cigarettes run for?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

King29 wrote:
I would trust the government or government agency's 0 percent.

They told you to smoke back in the day, encouraged it even, government campaigns on the telly advising you to light up a cigarette if you had a poorly chest.

Fuck off. Eat this, it's good for you, shit; actually it's not. Do this instead, rinse and repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-y_N4u0uRQ


It wasn't a Dr. who paid for that advert.
It was the tobacco industry.
Big Pharma is still influencing the medical profession. As much today as they were in the past.
They influence our Doctors in very subtle ways using much more hoodwinkery than the tab companies ever did.

Yes, there are Doctors who smoke and possibly Doctors who would not say much bad for it.
Those are the tiny minority of medical professionals.
There is the usual Gem of Wisdom about the man who lived to 92 and smoked since he was 9 years old. Aye that is probably true but statistics say many more people have been killed by smoking. (Or smoking related diseases.)
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
I'm glad you dumbed that down for the hard of thinking.

Sit down FFS.
You are like one of them nutters on here who gets all out of shape and abusive when they read something that they do not agree with. Smile

E-cigarettes are less harmful than cigarettes.
That was not in question.
And using 'The NHS say they are not as harmful' is skewing the evidence by a country mile.
If you read the advice the NHS advise switching to e-cigarettes in order to help STOP smoking.


The question is, Why use nicotine? It's not big or clever it's clear evidence of weakness of character.

E-cigarettes have not been around for long enough for long term study.
Introduction in 2003 is a date quoted.

How long were studies on cigarettes run for?


So, source of your claim? Still waiting on that.
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