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andym
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: tracking down family... Reply with quote

About a week ago my sister asked me to help track down her kids, she tried going down the proper channels, but because of their ages (21 & 23), there is no real help available.

Today while bored at work I decided that I would have a hunt around and have made some progress.... but it got me thinking, what if I do actually find them?

How do I approach them? Do I tell them I'm the reason they were taken from their mother? Do I introduce them to their real family in one go? Do I approach their adopted parents and try to get friendly with them first?

They were taken from their home when they were around 1 1/2 and 3, so they probably don't remember anything from back then.... but still I'm kind of shitting myself about actually finding them.... is this a normal feeling even though I'm just an uncle?
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

andym wrote:
How do I approach them? Do I tell them I'm the reason they were taken from their mother?
They were taken from their home when they were around 1 1/2 and 3, so they probably don't remember anything from back then.... but still I'm kind of shitting myself about actually finding them.... is this a normal feeling even though I'm just an uncle?

Confused
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iooi
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

andym wrote:
Do I approach their adopted parents and try to get friendly with them first?


Don't know about getting friendly, but certainly speaking to them that their mother would like to get in touch would be a good starting point. As they can then broach the subject with the kids.

But mum has to be aware the kids may not want contact.

If they tell you to fuck off, then given the ages. Then you could just go direct to the kids.
Again be prepared for a brush off.

If they are interested then hand it off to their mum and let her start contacting them direct.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you've confirmed 100% that you have the kids and the address is right, give the details to your sister so she can write them a letter and then both of you leave it there.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 04 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

andym wrote:
About a week ago my sister asked me to help track down her kids, she tried going down the proper channels, but because of their ages (21 & 23), there is no real help available.


As far as I know, the right to attempt contact with an adopted child exists under the Adoption and Children Act 2002, and is not affected when a child is an adult one. "The proper channels" should be the adoption agency involved at the time, whether local authority or independent, or another one if the original one no longer exists. Did she follow that route? If the "proper channels" have indicated that the child is not to be contacted (i.e. has told the adoption agency that they do not want to be contacted) then that's it. I would guess that making unsanctioned contact if that's the case might be difficult and possibly a bad thing.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The kids might not know that they are adopted. Imagine the damage finding out could do... If they don't know, their adoptive parents need to be given the chance to tell them first, but I can't see that being an easy conversation...
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, this is a heavy thing!
Feeling trepidation over this would Be perfectly normal.

Neutral ground for any meetings might be a good idea, after all if it does go wrong, everybody can go back to their homes without worrying.
Citizens Advise Bureau and the Salvation Army both have a lot of experience with this sort of thing.

At some stage in the past a local authority must have had been involved?
If you could find out which authority it was, there may be something there to help possibly.
You might need to envoke the Freedom of Information request.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

andym wrote:
there is no real help available.

D'ya want BCF to find them? Twisted Evil
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

andym wrote:
About a week ago my sister asked me to help track down her kids, she tried going down the proper channels, but because of their ages (21 & 23), there is no real help available.

Today while bored at work I decided that I would have a hunt around and have made some progress.... but it got me thinking, what if I do actually find them?

How do I approach them? Do I tell them I'm the reason they were taken from their mother? Do I introduce them to their real family in one go? Do I approach their adopted parents and try to get friendly with them first?

They were taken from their home when they were around 1 1/2 and 3, so they probably don't remember anything from back then.... but still I'm kind of shitting myself about actually finding them.... is this a normal feeling even though I'm just an uncle?


I think that bit needs elucidating on to make an informed response to your question.
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R1stu
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost the exact same thing happened to me just before Xmas.

I had 2 sisters I never met. they were taken away from my mother by her parents when they were around 4 and 2 as my mum and their dad was only 15-16 at the time.

They were adopted and moved eventually I found out to Swindon!

Anyway, for the last 5 years or so, they have been trying to track us down and managed to find us just before Xmas. Mum died about 5 years ago so never got a chance to meet them.

I was told by my cousin, that they found my auntie and cousins in Scotland and met them, and she then told them they have a brother. They weren't sure if I knew about them, or even if I wanted to meet them.

I wasnt sure how I felt when she first told me, as I was never sure what my mum said half the time was true or not, and never expected to see them at all.

But I told her I did, and they then added me to facebook as friends, and we started chatting.

We have met up now, and the youngest is a spit of mum, and I almost lost it when I saw her, as it was like seeing a ghost, but I am glad I did.

We chat online now and have arranged a family get together in the summer to give mum a send-off.

If they are found, I would advise making contact first and then ask if they want to meet or talk to their mum, at least then they are not backed into a corner and can at least take some time to digest the situation.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
The kids might not know that they are adopted. Imagine the damage finding out could do... If they don't know, their adoptive parents need to be given the chance to tell them first, but I can't see that being an easy conversation...


This x 1000. As Polar has said, we can't advise without knowing the facts.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
As Polar has said, we can't advise without knowing the facts.


That's why the relevant adoption agency should act as intermediary to find out what the facts are, and lay the groundwork. It's what they are for. They should be used.


A quick poke around shows an example from sfcs.org.uk:

"Support for birth families

It was once the case that adults who were adopted as children were able to find out little about their birth families.

Likewise, birth families often thought that they could discover very little about what happened to the child who was adopted.

With the implementation of the Adoption and Children’s Act 2002, birth relatives now have a right to request information.

If your child was adopted through St. Francis’ Children’s Society, the first step is to contact us and we can confirm whether we hold the relevant records.

If we do hold the records relating to your child’s adoption, you can make a formal application to trace your birth children through us, as long as they are over 18 and no restrictions have been placed on your contact."

There's also the concomitant statement:

"Adopted Adults – Your Rights

What if I don’t want any contact with my birth relatives?

If, as an adopted adult, you don’t want to have any contact with your birth family, you can make that choice. You can formally request an absolute or qualified veto with the appropriate adoption agency.

Where a veto is registered, the adoption agency would advise any intermediary agency that a veto is in place if they were contacted. In such a case, your name and identifying information will be kept confidential and not be given to your birth relatives."
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andym
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been working today so couldn't check this.

Reijufixing: When I moved back to Glasgow I contacted social services to see if they could help, because I wasn't immediate family they told me nothing (about 5 years ago), and unless I wanted to spend a couple of grand or register here there and everywhere in the hopes that they registered too then there was nothing I could do. My sister contacted social services and a few other organisations and was told most of the same stuff, but she had her address and phone number taken by social services then told that they would not pass the information on unless her kids contacted them and asked for it Confused
She's been trying for the past 4 years to find them.

The kids were taken away about 20 years ago, but the dad kept in contact for a few years, until he split up with his new girlfriend then he lost interest in them.... the last photo (and the only photo I've ever seen since they were taken), was when they were between 10-12 (oldest) as it's hard to tell the age from the photo. Also if either of them has applied for a driving license then they will have noticed their birth name is different.

Anyway, I was contacted by the person that provided the address, it turns out the kids don't live there any more, but they are almost positive they have found one of them (same names and date of birth). As for just passing the details on to my sister, I know what she's like... if for example this contact gets back to me and says something like they don't want to know their real family, then as far as I'm concerned that's the end of it..... she wouldn't accept that.

Even if it turns out they are both found, they've probably had a fairly decent upbringing.... do they really need to know their mum is a washed out old junkie?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:
do they really need to know their mum is a washed out old junkie?


Might help if they have abandonment issues.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on the person, a pal met their dad for the first time when they were 18, it isn't personally something I'd be interested in doing and I've heard adopted people say the same thing. Also it was what he wanted, this sounds like it's for your sister, and if she's likely to be a negative influence on them I'd just let them get on with their lives as harsh as that sounds Neutral
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andym
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
andym wrote:
Do I tell them I'm the reason they were taken from their mother?


I think that bit needs elucidating on to make an informed response to your question.


This is one of them "what if.." cases. It's something I've felt guilty about since that night 20 years ago... was I right or was I wrong kind of things.

About 20 years ago my sister was an alcoholic and probably a junkie by that point. On the day in question she had a massive fight with her boyfriend and threw him out (end of relationship), he'd asked me if I could go and check on the kids about 7pm that evening because he was worried about the state of her, I agreed.

I went round to hers just before 7 and knocked on the door, no answer. So I knocked again a bit louder and still got no answer, just as I was about to leave the oldest kid comes to the back of the door and says something about his mum not being in and he's scared. I calmed him down as best I could from the other side of the door, I explained I was going to leave for a bit, but I would be back.

I ran to the police station and explained to them and they said to go back and wait, about 2 hours later the police still hadn't shown up and the oldest was bawling his eyes out by that point. I told him to go to the living room as I was going to try getting in the door.... after about 10 minutes I'd only managed to hurt my shoulder and leg, and attract the attention of the next door neighbour... but still no police.

About 20 minutes later there was still no sign of the police and both kids were crying by this point, so I decided to climb up the 4 floors and break in through 1 of the windows, again I explained to the kid what I was going to do and to stay well away from all the windows. 5 minutes later I was inside.

There wasn't a single light on in the house, there was a clothes horse fully loaded less than a foot from an electric fire with all 3 bars lit.

I managed to calm the kids down eventually and waited for the police to arrive. Almost 2 hours after all this there was a knock on the door, finally the police arrived, I explained the situation through the letterbox and they said that I would probably be arrested for breaking in, I said I was concerned for the childrens safety etc.

Anyway, eventually my sister turned up completely shit faced and didn't have a clue what was happening.... he excuse was she'd gone out about 5pm to get some takeaway (it was after midnight by this point), social services were there at this point and said they were taking the kids in to care there and then..... she just shrugged basically.

The kids came to live at my parents the next night, and because their place is a complete shit hole, social services removed them from there.... and I've never seen them again.



So, in that kind of situation, what would you have done?
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

andym wrote:
So, in that kind of situation, what would you have done?


Fwiw I think I would've done something pretty similar. At least I hope I would, because I think it was the right thing to do. I can see that it led to a whole chain of other events - but even those were probably for the best. What I mean is, in the first instance you were just contending with a bad, dangerous and difficult situation. You didn't know how it would pan out - but, even if you could've foreseen how circumstances would change in the long run, I still think you were right.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:
Reijufixing: When I moved back to Glasgow I contacted social services to see if they could help, because I wasn't immediate family they told me nothing (about 5 years ago), and unless I wanted to spend a couple of grand or register here there and everywhere in the hopes that they registered too then there was nothing I could do. My sister contacted social services and a few other organisations and was told most of the same stuff, but she had her address and phone number taken by social services then told that they would not pass the information on unless her kids contacted them and asked for it Confused
She's been trying for the past 4 years to find them.


Hi, I'm afraid I have a healthy disregard for the capabilities of the SS. I think the same Act as mentioned above applies to Scotland, so I'd still ask an adoption agency, even if it's just for advice on how your sister should proceed, the agency should know the law better than the SS as well as what's possible.

Perhaps this could also be a good start point:

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/adoption-records

There are pointers to other agencies, and general advice. It might be worth her/you just seeing what can be done, I don't think such advice costs.

Whether they'd want to know, or what might happen if they met or whatever seems a bit of an emotional minefield. Um.

EDIT: I tend to agree with Trevor Hyphen-Hyphen. Circumstances change, as do people, but taking care is still nice Smile
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:43 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andym, you did the responsible thing and possibly saved you sister's kids from worse.

Sorry but I wouldn't know where to start on a search.
My 2p.
Private Detectives usually offer a first consultation free.
They are usually ex-police who know the 'system'.
Maybe of some use. Maybe useless too.
I had to set a PI on someone years ago.
It did get some results but not a conclusion in that case.
I was looking for someone who did not want to be found though.
It's different looking for someone who is not actively hiding.
And you said there are two which is 100% better odds than looking for one person.

Good luck. Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 01:07 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea what I would do in your situation but I would hope something like you did. Karma
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: tracking down family... Reply with quote

How do I approach them?

Do I tell them I'm the reason they were taken from their mother?

No, because you were incidental, Its the mother fault not yours
you may have even saved their lives


Do I introduce them to their real family in one go?
Certainly not!! that could be damaging

Do I approach their adopted parents and try to get friendly with them first?

I'd make gentle low key enquiries first and keep your sister out of the loop
until/unless the kids want contact, it's their choice not hers.


Even if she's clean now, she probably has regrets and guilt which is understandable, but
barging in on their lives to make herself feel better could do more harm than good


Easy does it ok?
If they want contact fine.
If not, back off and leave the option open for them
they may feel differently later on in life
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King29
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 07 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was adopted and got to meet my 'real' mother. Uncomfortable to say the least. Wouldn't recommend it. Also being told you are adopted at an early age which was 7 in my case, ruins your situation at home because you realise the last 7 years have been a lie. I wish I had not been told, wish I had not bothered to meet my 'real' mother. Regardless of the circumstance I just couldn't get over the fact she put herself into a situation where I could be taken from her.

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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 07 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

King29 wrote:
Also being told you are adopted at an early age which was 7 in my case, ruins your situation at home because you realise the last 7 years have been a lie. I wish I had not been told

Well. Two people very close to me were adopted as babies. One found out when in his early twenties, when his dying grandfather decided unilaterally that he 'ought to know'. Fucked him up big time, unsurprisingly really. The other one was told by her adoptive parents at such an early age she can't ever remember not knowing; the way they spun it to her as a little kid was that they got to choose her from loads of other babies, and she was the one they picked - unlike everyone else who just gets stuck with what they are given. Certainly worked for her, and her relationship with her adoptive parents was absolutely fine; the adoption bit really made no difference at all.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 00:37 - 08 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to sound callous, because I wouldn't say this if I didn't practice it myself, but MYOB seems to be woefully underrated these days. Why get involved? Why rock the boat? Why stick your neck on the line? I think it's amazing the way some people stick their noses in other people's mess. Was any cost-benefit analysis done? What was in it for you? Awkwardness is the best possible outcome in this situation - what's the worst? Better to steer a wide berth, let sleeping dogs lie, hear no evil see no evil, etc.
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