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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Motorcycle Trailers Reply with quote

OK hopefully in the correct place. If not, please forgive and be gentle.

Motorcycle trailers. I fabricate stuff and in the past (15 years+) used to make trailers and sell them near Xmas for spending money.
I'm all skilled and that so don't panic about failed welds and wheelbarrow wheels!

Has the law changed on home made trailers? Can anyone advise accurately on this?

I ask because I want to make a trailer to carry bike(s) on.
I intend to make a trailer which will fully dismantle and can be carried inside a car - for storage here and for ease of movement/security if parked up and riding the bike.
Obviously if the laws have changed and it'd be too much trouble, I'd not bother.

Cheers!
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorcycle trailers... a trailer to be towed by a motorcycle or a trailer for carrying a motorcycle that's to be towed by something with four wheels?
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah sugar!

I'm going to make a trailer which will carry a motorcycle. The trailer will be towed by a car or van.

Oops.
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Grubscrew
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under800kg gvw no brakes, over that it needs brakes.
Lights, mudguards, snatch cord if braked, otherwise it’s fairly lax in the uk, but Aus and NZ are treated as another vehicle ie need it’s own plate.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grubscrew wrote:
Under800kg gvw no brakes, over that it needs brakes.
Lights, mudguards, snatch cord if braked, otherwise it’s fairly lax in the uk, but Aus and NZ are treated as another vehicle ie need it’s own plate.


Other countries in Europe use trailer plates.

https://www.armitagetrailers.com/trailerlaw.htm
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colink98
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 05 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

the law in the UK was changed a while back.
all trailers manufactured post 2012 need to be certified by VOSA.

you could always buy the bones of a pre 2012 trailer and modify that.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some good feedback. I'll explain my thinking on this:

Bike and trailer would weigh no more than 400kg together. My bike is only 128kg or something and I'm not intending on building a battleship trailer (nor too light either).

Given the relatively low weight of what I'm thinking, a car wouldn't need the trailer to be a braked one. If the trailer ends going too heavy then yes braking systems will be added.

I will be fully compliant with lighting regulations and breakaway cables etc. I also don't mess with old hitches - always new because safer.

My reasons for asking are I was aware that some countries in Europe have a plating system. I was wondering if the UK had arrived with it too.
My concern is if I'd need a VOSA test and if the trailer would need regular testing like lorry trailers do. Like I said, I'm not up to date with law.

I suppose I could argue that I made it years ago and make it look like so (rusty bits). Surely they couldn't prove when I'd made it??
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weasley
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PostPosted: 09:44 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

These suggest you do need an IVA:

Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) for light trailers: help to get a pass
Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) manual Trailers (O1, O2, O3 and O4)
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating.
It's stuff like that which I see as a challenge. I'm certainly not put off from doing this, far from it, I'm gunning for it now.

I'm looking at several routes now.

The first is to plan and factor in legal requirements. The end build would then be offered to VOSA for testing. I can't see a fee for what I'm planning but that'd change with time and depends on construction type anyway..
There's actually a full VOSA testing site 3 miles from my home.

A second plan is to build and factor in the required compliances. Reflectors, good lights and a damned good looking build.
This build would not be offered to VOSA for testing but would comply fully anyway. If stopped I'd claim it's an old trailer and I refurbished it with the correct reflectors etc and I didn't realise VOSA would want to see it. I'd claim ignorance.

Reading into the literature there's mention of special purpose trailers not needing a VOSA test. One of those categories is trailer tents. I can't see mention of motorcycle trailers and I'm wondering if that due to the strange shape and layout of a motorcycle carrying trailer, whether it'd be considered special type?
Obviously I could easily confirm that by contacting my local test site.
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis Bickle wrote:
Grubscrew wrote:
Under800kg gvw no brakes, over that it needs brakes.
Lights, mudguards, snatch cord if braked, otherwise it’s fairly lax in the uk, but Aus and NZ are treated as another vehicle ie need it’s own plate.


Sorry to split hairs but I'm pretty sure it's 750kg, not 800kg. And if it's braked (i.e. over 750kg) you'll also need +E on the category vehicle you're towing with.

Furthermore if your gross train weight is in excess of 3.5t you'll also need a tachograph and the appropriate category driving licence to pull it legally. I.e. if you're pulling a 500kg trailer with a 3.5t van that's 4t gross train weight and you'll need at least C1+E on your licence and have a tachograph fitted.


Nope. You can tow various combinations up to 3.5 tonnes without a B+E license and up to 4250 in some circumstances. Tachographs are only requred where driving is your job, and for hire and reward (lorry based horseboxes dont need them for example unless you're a breeder)

750kg is the max weight for any trailer, but be aware most cars will have an unbraked towing limit much less than this. (A VW bora for example is 406kg)

As far as I know, new trailers fall under IVA regs, although it seems overkill for such a simple design.

If it's for personal use, rather than sale, I converted an old dinghy trailer and fitted a centre rail to it which gave a nice wide long trailer for carrying bikes

https://www.racingdinghies.co.uk/sites/default/files/Cadet%20Road%20Base.jpg
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A100man
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:


I suppose I could argue that I made it years ago and make it look like so (rusty bits). Surely they couldn't prove when I'd made it??


This, surely!?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tips...

1)Use LED light clusters. Magnetics are sound. Cheap.
2)Buy quality plug and socket. The cheap ones dissolve.
3)If you have a tow ball fitted to a vehicle then it will be part of an mot test. Structural integrity and electrical function.
I have a removable tow ball so it's off for the mot.
Removable ball is genius unless you use the hitch very regularly.
4)Shin-ing a tow ball is STILL more painful than childbirth.
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:

3)If you have a tow ball fitted to a vehicle then it will be part of an mot test. Structural integrity and electrical function.
I have a removable tow ball so it's off for the mot.
Removable ball is genius unless you use the hitch very regularly.


The Inspection Manual wrote:
If a tow ball or pin isn't fitted at the time of test – because it's detachable, it's been unbolted or otherwise removed – but the attachment brackets are still in place, the brackets should still be assessed unless they have been deliberately rendered unfit for further use.


Same again for the electrics.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis Bickle wrote:

Sorry to split hairs but I'm pretty sure it's 750kg, not 800kg. And if it's braked (i.e. over 750kg) you'll also need +E on the category vehicle you're towing with.


no

you can tow a trailer over a MAM of 750KG as long as the total MAM is not exceeding 3500KG.

Trailers with a MAM over 750KG need brakes. You do not need +E though to pull them. You need +E if the total MAM of the vehicle is over the 3500kg limit or the trailer dimensions do not fit those allowed (though pre '97 cat B passes have certain Grandfather rights to tow heavier).

Travis Bickle wrote:

Furthermore if your gross train weight is in excess of 3.5t you'll also need a tachograph and the appropriate category driving licence to pull it legally. I.e. if you're pulling a 500kg trailer with a 3.5t van that's 4t gross train weight and you'll need at least C1+E on your licence and have a tachograph fitted.


So much wrong...... did you sleep through Driver CPC? Laughing

GVW/GTW is the wrong terminology to licence entitlement to tow a trailer on a Cat B licence. MAM is what matters.

Tachograph is only required if the vehicle is going to be used for commercial purposes. If that's the case you'd also need it to be O licenced.

B+E would apply to your scenario. You don't need class 1 to pull a trailer behind a loaded tranny van.
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Stalk
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:


If it's for personal use, rather than sale, I converted an old dinghy trailer and fitted a centre rail to it which gave a nice wide long trailer for carrying bikes

https://www.racingdinghies.co.uk/sites/default/files/Cadet%20Road%20Base.jpg


So, how was the nose weight on that with a bike on it? Back of the car a bit low?
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Stalk
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking for a trailer to hang behind the MH and carry a 650 burgman (abour 280 KG) and a couple of push bikes, one of which is electric so 23KG. In Northampton.
Want to give me a price?
Cheers
Stalk
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeywrencher wrote:
MCN wrote:

3)If you have a tow ball fitted to a vehicle then it will be part of an mot test. Structural integrity and electrical function.
I have a removable tow ball so it's off for the mot.
Removable ball is genius unless you use the hitch very regularly.


The Inspection Manual wrote:
If a tow ball or pin isn't fitted at the time of test – because it's detachable, it's been unbolted or otherwise removed – but the attachment brackets are still in place, the brackets should still be assessed unless they have been deliberately rendered unfit for further use.


Same again for the electrics.


Shit!!! Shocked

Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 06 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Travis Bickle wrote:
I was actually thinking of getting some sort of trailer that you could attach to a bike. Like a bike-carrying-trailer that could connect to another bike somehow. The idea being if I needed to collect a vehicle somewhere and didn't have another person to help me, I could ride the bike with the empty trailer in-tow, connect the trailer to the other vehicle and then load the bike onto the trailer to drive it back again.

I've searched for such a device but doesn't seem to be a mainstream solution (maybe there's a good reason for that) so would maybe have to get it fabricated.

Does anyone know more about the legalities with regard to towing a trailer with a motorcycle??? I've never come across this in legislation before.


Interesting idea, for which a different solution already exists.

You need a towing dolly that attaches to a car towbar. You'd be able to strap one to the back of a bike.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTORCYCLE-CARRIER-TRAILER-DOLLY-1/303027323484?hash=item468dd6025c:g:WU0AAMXQ3kRQ8q-P:rk:4:pf:0

Trailer law for towing behind motorcycles is complex, and becoming increasingly more so. The allowable weight and dimensions are dependant of the kerb weight and dimensions of the bike (and it has to be marked-up with a plate listing them).

I work on the general principal that there are no coppers out there who know enough about it to start waving their dick about. They'll assume anyone with a trailer on a motorcycle knows a lot about them and there is nothing a copper likes less than beinf proved wrong. So I just ignore the rules and have assembled somethign that looks sensible (for a given definition of sensible). Although I suspect mine is actually too long to be legal for a bike with this wheelbase.

https://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f216/stinkwheel/Trailer/DSCN0161.jpg
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