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HONDA DEALER KEEPING MY LOG BOOK?

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LearnerLEGAL
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: HONDA DEALER KEEPING MY LOG BOOK? Reply with quote

A few months ago I purchased my first motorcycle and have been buzzing around with my L plates with a giant grin on my face ever since.

However, when I purchased the bike from a Honda dealer, the salesman showed me the service history book but said that he couldn't hand it over to me because of the GDPR and that it had past owners details in it. Naively, and as I'd never purchased a vehicle of any sort before, I just said 'OK' and off I went. The salesman said that when I go to sell the bike the prospective buyer can always come and see the log book to see the service history if needed.

It's only now thinking back on it and that it seems completely wrong. Who is going to want to visit a dealer to check the ervice history of a 2nd hand bike? Does this sound right to you? Should go back and get the log book from the dealer.
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Last edited by LearnerLEGAL on 13:42 - 12 Feb 2019; edited 1 time in total
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something definitely not right there, when you bought the bike you should have transferred the logbook over to you, should have been done online there and then.

At worst, you should have filled in the green slip, and sent it off in the post. Have you checked to see if the bike is listed with the dvla as you as the registered keeper of the bike?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Log book is the v5. Wink

You should go and get the service history book thing from them, it's yours and they've got no right to keep it.

Wonder what they're trying to hide from you because it's not the previous owners details.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, something stinks here. That book is yours. Ask Mr bike salesman and supposed expert on communications law what
would have happened had you bought that same bike privately? Firstly it's pretty impossible to buy a bike privately without
first knowing the address of its current owner. How does his law get around that?

Lets say I was selling a bike privately. I've had absolutely no government information telling me I'm committing any
offence by handing over all the paperwork, V5 green slip, service manual, old receipts. MOTs and whatnot. If I'm doing
something criminal by handing those things over, then where was the press campaign telling everyone what to not do in
future when selling a vehicle. When SORN came in there was a national information campaign, same with RFL discs being
abolished. But we've heard nothing whatsoever about this. I suggest that neither have your bike dealer and they're making it
up as they go along. Your mans BS-ing you and taking you for a mug.

It's fair to say some manufacturers only use an online records keeping system for service information
as opposed to giving the buyers of their vehicles a hard copy book when they buy a car. For example, Mazda do this.
And some do both, keep online records and give you a book to stamp. for instance Volkswagen. But if a book exists
then its yours, the manufacturers intention was that it was given to you along with the vehicle. I have 4 vehicles in my
house at the moment. All 4 have a service/maintenance book and I'm in possession of all four of them. Maybe you can clarify
his position with an email to Honda UK asking who made their franchisees lifelong guardians of service books?
Moreover, if someone other than Honda carries out planned service work, (which won't invalidate manufacturers warranty
btw) where can that be recorded if Honda are sitting on a stacks of service books that should be with the owners
of their products?? If that's what their FRANCHISEE is doing, I don't believe it's at Honda UKs request and Honda may
be very interested to know exactly what this dealership is telling their customers.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Re: HONDA DEALER KEEPING MY LOG BOOK? Reply with quote

LearnerLEGAL wrote:
A few months ago I purchased my first motorcycle and have been buzzing around with my L plates with a giant grin on my face ever since.

However, when I purchased the bike from a Honda dealer, the salesman showed me the Log/maintenance book but said that he couldn't hand it over to me because of the GDPR and that it had past owners details in it. Naively, and as I'd never purchased a vehicle of any sort before, I just said 'OK' and off I went. The salesman said that when I go to sell the bike the prospective buyer can always come and see the log book to see the service history if needed.

It's only now thinking back on it and that it seems completely wrong. Who is going to want to visit a dealer to check the ervice history of a 2nd hand bike? Does this sound right to you? Should go back and get the log book from the dealer.


I strongly suspect the logbook is not what you think it is.

As stated above, it's the V5. A 4 page A4 sized document. Nothing to do with service history at all.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty shocking a dealer is pulling that sort of tale on a (presumably) young buyer.
It would be enough to put anyone of dealers for life.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Yeah, something stinks here. That book is yours. Ask Mr bike salesman and supposed expert on communications law what
would have happened had you bought that same bike privately?

But the GDPR law (which is what this is about) only applies to businesses though (like property letting Wink ).

grr666 wrote:
But if a book exists then its yours, the manufacturers intention was that it was given to you along with the vehicle.

So what if that's what the manufacturer's intention was? If the law gets changed to make that practice illegal, then so be it.

I personally don't know whether handing over service records which contain the personal details of previous owners without their permission constitutes a breach of GDPR regulations, but to be honest it wouldn't surprise me at all if it did - I mean, why wouldn't it? It makes no difference being hard copy rather than electronic data, for instance. Given the huge potential financial penalties (4% of annual turnover) it doesn't surprise me at all that some dealers are playing it safe (my recent dealer-purchased bike didn't bother at all, which did surprise me a bit, although I was of course pleased to receive the FSH).

[EDIT: just found this interesting article on a motoring legal website opining that it's OK to pass on a service history, basically because the previous owner of the vehicle has deliberately made it available with that intention in mind.]

I can forsee future service sales invoices being designed with tear-off sections with the customer's personal details on, to enable the invoice to be passed on in future.

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
I strongly suspect the logbook is not what you think it is.
As stated above, it's the V5. A 4 page A4 sized document. Nothing to do with service history at all.

Has to be said that it's a bit bizarre that V5s are still known as log books though, innit? I mean, given that actual 'logbooks' were phased out in the 1970s? Unsurprising that there's some confusion among whippersnappers of under 50.
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LearnerLEGAL
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you everyone for taking the time to read and reply and in some cases do some research on my behalf. It is hugely appreciated and once again has shown how friendly the bike community is that I've joined.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess what - the V5c also has the previous owner's details on it Very Happy

That salesman's ful of it Smile
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Guess what - the V5c also has the previous owner's details on it

Not any more it doesn't - so wariness by the dealer is at least understandable.
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Kentol750
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 12 Feb 2019    Post subject: V5 Reply with quote

New v5 from a dealer is different. No previous keeper details. Just amount of them.
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Feasty
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years ago I bought a car 2nd hand from a small car dealers (they sold different size vehicles but just didn't have many cars Razz ), and after a few weeks found a random button hidden away under the dash. I had no idea what it was for and neither did they.
The former keepers details were on the V5, a little digging and I found their phone number online. Rang them and found it was an alarm button, I think I left them a bit disconcerted though by being able to contact them directly. Laughing

More recently my F650 has a red flashing dash light, I think it's just a fake alarm light but can't be sure and the wires aren't easy to trace at all. (Interestingly it stops flashing when the engine is running). I checked the V5 and this time there are no previous owner details... shame really, I'd imagine most of us would be interested in the history of older bikes we'd bought.
I'd certainly be happy to share details of my previous bikes if new owners ever got in touch.
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(7 year gap)
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feasty wrote:
I'd imagine most of us would be interested in the history of older bikes we'd bought.
I'd certainly be happy to share details of my previous bikes if new owners ever got in touch.

For sure. I wrote to the previous owners of both my two previous bikes by snailmail; one in an effort to find out service history details and the other to ask about some electrical mods he'd made. Both very happily and helpfully emailed me back, and seemed to be pleased that their old bikes were in the hands of an apparently 'loving owner' Embarassed
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jnw010
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The service book he showed you was for a different bike. Your bike has no service history.
Or
He wants to use your service book to blag the service history on another bike that has no service history.
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

jnw010 wrote:
The service book he showed you was for a different bike. Your bike has no service history.
Or
He wants to use your service book to blag the service history on another bike that has no service history.


I have to agree, something very fishy going on here, for a starters, why are the previous owners details in the service book, and secondly, even if they are, can the dealer not just redact them if he is so worried about it
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't realise that there's no previous keeper details on the v5 anymore. My most recent one has them.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine also does from last year about September

guessing dealer has no proper paperwork for bike and is blagging you

I also had this as dealer kept saying po would bring it in as car was sold with fsh and all manuals

when I got v5c I wrote to her

she didn't ever have car serviced and when she bought it there was not manuals for it she had told dealer this a few times apparently


guessing this is the same but with an added twist of bullshit
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-.
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Feasty wrote:
I'd imagine most of us would be interested in the history of older bikes we'd bought.
I'd certainly be happy to share details of my previous bikes if new owners ever got in touch.

For sure. I wrote to the previous owners of both my two previous bikes by snailmail; one in an effort to find out service history details and the other to ask about some electrical mods he'd made. Both very happily and helpfully emailed me back, and seemed to be pleased that their old bikes were in the hands of an apparently 'loving owner' Embarassed

I've said this before but I redact my details from service receipts... for this reason Wink
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had this. Bought a 2nd hand Porsche, on doing checks I phoned the original supplying dealer. They told me it had an extensive service history with them but I'd have to go into the dealership to request it.

I did, but they said they couldn't give it to me because of GDPR, however, they did print it out and then simply cut off the previous owners details at the top.

Worked for me. Ask them to blot it out if it matters that much to them.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the address is hand written and the document is not part of a "filing system" ordered by that personal data (I suspect it is ordered by the registration number or the "table heap" filing system if it's at a motorcycle dealers) then GDPR does not apply.
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steve the grease
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 13 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A letter to Honda UK might do the trick , if as you have stated , the guy is a Honda Dealer .Ask Honda UK to write to you explaining the legal status of the service log book and who should kep it. Explain in your letter to Honda how you bought a Honda as it is the premium motorcycle brand , how you believe the dealer is acting against your interests and how all this chicanery is undermining your belief in the Honda Motorcycle company's good name. Should do the trick.
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LearnerLEGAL
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 14 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

Got this response from Honda

"Thank you for contacting Honda UK.

I would like to confirm that indeed this is the policy, as we are very strict in keeping our customers personal date.

The best thing I can suggest in this situation is, if you would like I can check if there are any service history records for your bike and to provide you with this information. I would need only the VIN and reg. number of the bike.

As for the service book, please be informed that you can obtain a brand new service book directly from Honda. For this we will need again the bike details and a scanned copy of your V5 document, as a prove of an ownership. Once we receive it it will be escalated to our Head Office for further assistance. After you receive your brand new service book you can fill all the services from now on. Also you can contact the previous servicing dealers in order for them to re-stamp your new service book.

Thank you for contacting Honda. If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me back."
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 14 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So they're saying that anyone who buys a used Honda from one of their dealers will no longer get the service history? Confused
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 14 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the thinking there, then? Sounds like a stupid fucking idea that's helpful to no-one.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 14 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thinking is they haven't got a clue what they're talking about and are just making it up as they go along.

We could be approaching the time when it's appropriate for BCF to start phoning the currently nameless dealer to ask questions about service histories. Thinking
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