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Nope. |
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Nope. World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 Karma :
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Posted: 14:36 - 13 Feb 2019 Post subject: Issues with used car after a month and a half |
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Hi All,
So I thought I'd seek the advice of the BCF collective.
Approximately a month and a half ago I purchased a Range Rover from a non-franchise dealer. It's a 2011 with FSH, 4.4 TDV8, and 80k miles on the clock. I paid around £16k for the car.
After a few days it developed an oil leak from a gasket underneath the oil cooler which sits in the V. I spoke to the dealer and we agreed that I'd pay the labour and he'd pay the parts (the parts were more expensive). This was repaired.
I've put around 2k miles on the car since, and it seemed to perform fine. I was driving the car on a long distance trip (again, performing fine) and I got a "reduced performance" warning on the dash. I pulled over, shut the car off, started the car again and the warning returned. When the codes were read the error was relating to boost pressure, we assumed through a split hose. I had the car recovered to a garage local to me and they looked at it.
They started the car and the error had cleared. They drove it for 10~ miles and said it drove absolutely fine. They then plugged in their computer and looked at the raw sensor data. One MAF was showing 0, so they assumed it was a fault MAF. They swapped them over to make sure, but the other MAF also read 0 on that intake.
They then removed the air intake and put their hand over the intake while the car was revved, there was no air drawn from the intake. This would suggest a failed/seized turbo charger.
Since the car was driving fine (at least to my knowledge, it's the only one I've driven!), and hasn't changed since I bought it, I can only assume this turbo has been faulty since I bought the car, or has been slowly failing over a period of time.
Basically, I'm staring down the barrel of a £3.5k turbo replacement bill since it's basically an engine out job, and everybody seems to say you should change both.
Do I have a leg to stand on with the dealer? I've not spoken to them yet as I've not had the final diagnosis from the garage yet as they're taking it apart today to look at the turbo.
Since I am fairly convinced this issue is preexisting, is the dealer liable for the repair? I know this used to be covered by the sale of goods act but it's now the consume rights act. Does anybody have any recent experience or advice to offer? ____________________ 2011 XT660Z Ténéré - 2003 YZR-R1 5PW (In Build) |
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Hawkeye1250FA |
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Hawkeye1250FA World Chat Champion
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Riejufixing |
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Riejufixing World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Jun 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 15:18 - 13 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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No idea about the legalities. Try honestjohn.co.uk There's an "ask HJ" facility and forums where knowledgeable people read & psot.
"They then removed the air intake and put their hand over the intake while the car was revved, there was no air drawn from the intake. This would suggest a failed/seized turbo charger."
The air intake to what, the turbocharger?
"Basically, I'm staring down the barrel of a £3.5k turbo replacement bill since it's basically an engine out job, and everybody seems to say you should change both"
https://best-turbos.com/land-rover-turbo-replacement/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyN3kxPK44AIVCrvtCh02NwADEAAYASAAEgJnKfD_BwE
There seem to be other places too. Also, I can't see why replacing a turbo should go together with replacing the engine....
Last edited by Riejufixing on 15:50 - 13 Feb 2019; edited 1 time in total |
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :
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Posted: 16:21 - 13 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Within Six months of purchase it's down to the dealer to prove that the issue was not pre-existing, and so they should be liable.
I'm surprised more BCFers aren't aware of this...
Copypasta from Honest John's site:
Quote: | WHAT CAN YOU DO IF YOUR NEW CAR OR YOUR RECENTLY PURCHASED USED CAR DEVELOPS MAJOR FAULTS?
The FAQ now gets into the much more complex aspects of the various pieces of legislation and case law.
While this gives you your legal rights based on statutory regulations and case law, it's obviously always best to attempt to negotiate first.
A dealer might try to use a lot of flannel to try to wriggle out of a claim, but as soon as you start asserting your rights by quoting the appropriate case law, in particular Clegg v Olle Andersson, he may capitulate.
The limit for claims in the Small Claims Track of the County Court was raised from £5,000 to £10,000, as from April 2013, making this service much more useful in disputes over purchases of cars.
Small Claims cases should be commenced via moneyclaim.gov.uk , which is cheaper than the Small Claims Track of the County Court. Link to Small Claims here: Small Claims Track. |
____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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2Hondas |
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2Hondas Nova Slayer
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Hawkeye1250FA |
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Hawkeye1250FA World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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TbirdX |
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TbirdX Crazy Courier
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duhawkz |
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duhawkz World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 22:10 - 13 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Is the car on finance/credit card or was it bought out right
If there is a finance agreement attached to it, you may be able to make a section 75 claim to the finance company
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/section75-protect-your-purchases/ ____________________ "The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red |
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mentalboy |
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mentalboy World Chat Champion
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UnknownStuntm... |
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UnknownStuntm... World Chat Champion
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stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Hawkeye1250FA |
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Hawkeye1250FA World Chat Champion
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BTTD |
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BTTD World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:45 - 14 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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mentalboy wrote: | Hawkeye1250FA wrote: |
As the dealer I'd say 80k miles of wear and tear was obviously going to cause problems on something sooner or later. 80k miles advertised, therefore as described. 👍
I'd be pissed off and arguey if it was me, but I wouldn't touch an 80k car with a barge pole - especially not for 16k 😲 |
This isn't the 1970's, a modern car engine is barely run in at 80k. |
Maybe for a petrol engine, but a modern complicated twin turbo, common rail, DPF'd, EGR'd Euro 4/5/6 4.4 V8 diesel at 8 years old and 80,000 miles is just entering expensive "wear and tear" parts failing mode. EGR's, turbos, DPF's, injectors, cats....
A lot of modern diesels and cars are built to be super reliable and economical for the first 3 years and 80,000 or so miles, to appeal to the major buyers (lease and finance firms), after which they can end up being a liability, like this one.
The long service intervals (my T5 2.0 TDI has a long and short option configurable), are not good for them in the long term, as even with modern oils. 20,000 miles on a diesel is pushing it's luck. It just appeals to the lease firms as they only have to service is 3 or 4 times at a push in the first 3 years, at which time it gets flogged on. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Pete. |
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Pete. Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 11:34 - 14 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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The reasoning that you should expect a Range Rover to break down doesn't hold water, because if a buyer is expected to do their research and apparently accept the risk of buying an unreliable motor then equally the seller must accept the same risk in selling one.
Failed turbo after 6 weeks and 2000miles = dealer liability IMO. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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BTTD |
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BTTD World Chat Champion
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 18:36 - 14 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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They should fix it, how straight forward that'll be is another matter entirely.
It should become apparent quite quickly how willing they are to play ball, seeing as they wanted him to pay the labour when fixing the oil leak which occurred in the first few days, I wouldn't be very confident about them being willing to pay for a new turbo.
Give them one attempt to fix the fault and if they don't then you can reject the car and get a refund.
I've a horrible feeling that the fact you've had another garage working on it is going to complicate things. |
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 69 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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