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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
i do understand what you're saying MarJay, and agree to some extent. But I just think you came down a bit hard on the guy for buying the bike he wants, making his own decisions, whether they're the best he could have made or not. One of the biggest joys of motorcycling for me has been finding things out for myself - people seem to have to consider every little detail of advice before they can make a decision about anything these days, but I think sometimes you just have to go on impulse, or go by what the heart says - makes life more interesting!


I did come down hard on him, and I acknowledged that in my first post. However, it is a bit too easy to justify buying a bike that is inappropriate with all the poor advice out there these days. Ten years ago people wouldn't have suggested people buy a brand new CBR600RR as their first bike.

He'll probably be OK, but he won't learn as much as he would if he started on something smaller or at least less powerful in my opinion. At least he didn't go out and buy a litre as a first bike.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 12:32 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
As a slight aside:

I also feel massively sorry for anyone who hasn't had the experience of thrashing a little bike to within an inch of its life. In lots of ways a 125 (and definitely a 2t 250) is more fun than a modern litre.

Even though my KR1S doesn't properly work right now, I still have it and there is a reason for that. I might swap it for an NSR250 or similar at some point, but I reckon I'll always have a little two stroke hanging around.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


I did come down hard on him, and I acknowledged that in my first post. However, it is a bit too easy to justify buying a bike that is inappropriate


It was appropriate for the OP, cos that's what he wanted.
Btw, what law says you have to justify the purchase of a motorcycle?

MarJay wrote:
I also feel massively sorry for anyone who hasn't had the experience of thrashing a little bike to within an inch of its life.


Don't. He can always discover that later. I did. I downsized steadily from my turbo, until eventually I wound up on a YPVS350, and I had great fun on that too.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Don't. He can always discover that later. I did. I downsized steadily from my turbo, until eventually I wound up on a YPVS350, and I had great fun on that too.


Could you conceive that you might have been better off on the 350 from the start perhaps? ALthough to be fair you did start on a 100 at first, so you had some biking experience which would have stood you in better stead than jumping straight on a 115bhp (claimed) monster.

I reckon that an individual should justify the purchase of their first bike on the basis of their learning and improving. If your skill is not up to it, you probably shouldn't buy it. I acknowledge that the CBR600RR is probably not THE worst first bike out there, but it's not far off the top tier in my opinion. It's also worth saying it just in case any more newbies happen across this thread, and have ideas of buying a twitchy Supersport 600 as their first bike.

Would you take a 10 lesson fast track car license course, pass your test and buy a Lamborghini (with no ABS, traction control or anything)? (I guess maybe if you're a premiere league footballer! Ha) Would you spend 20 hours in a Cessna and then fly a Eurofighter?

Pilots shouldn't have to justify the planes they fly! Wink
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
Would you spend 20 hours in a Cessna and then fly a Eurofighter?

Pilots shouldn't have to justify the planes they fly! Wink


Ridiculous and with bugger-all parity.
Much of learning to fly advanced aircraft is because you quite simply couldn't fly them at all, even after flying a more basic one, without the incremental training*. If you can ride a small bike, you can ride a bigger, faster one. That's not to say you can get the best out of it, but if that's what you want to do, there are no laws against it. I for one am thankful for that.

Don't ever get yourself in government, MarJay - the hit on our freedoms would be more than I could bear Laughing

MarJay = Tut Tut

*Did that really need pointing out to you? Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 14:17 - 18 Feb 2019; edited 1 time in total
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


Could you conceive that you might have been better off on the 350 from the start perhaps?


Better off, no. Just a different way to go about it.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

*Did that really need pointing out to you? Rolling Eyes


I was being facetious, but let's assume the Eurofighter and the Cessna had the same controls and avionics but had the same disparity with maneuvering and performance... That's the kind of thing we're talking about here.

Ok, maybe not. A better example would be a Cessna and a Hawker Hunter or something.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17439801.shoreham-air-crash-pilot-admits-gaps-in-his-training/
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
That's the kind of thing we're talking about here.

Ok, maybe not.


Indeed not. We're talking about a guy who bought a CBR600RR as his first big bike because he wanted to, was allowed by law to, and is subsequently enjoying. Good on him, say I Smile

MarJay, note that I'm not arguing against your way of doing things. I would not impose the way I did it on you. Just live and let live, eh?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Apart from satisfying my craze for speed kicks, there were some advantages of going about things the way I did.
On one of my first sneaked late night rides on the Turbo, I got into a horrendous tank-slapper. A proper one, lock-to-lock.

I instinctively knew I had to let the throttle go and let it settle itself - any attempt to touch the brakes would have been instant disaster. Thankfully, and purely by luck, it did sort itself out. That taught me to respect the weight and power of such bikes, and I have never got into that situation since. Not an ideal way to learn such things, I'll grant you Laughing , but learn I did.

Conversely, a mate of mine who raced smaller bikes as well as riding on the road, borrowed my GPz1100 and killed himself on it. So his small-bike experience apparently didn't teach him anything about riding the bigger machines.

Swings and roundabouts, as they say.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
On one of my first sneaked late night rides on the Turbo, I got into a horrendous tank-slapper. A proper one, lock-to-lock.

...

Conversely, a mate of mine who raced smaller bikes as well as riding on the road, borrowed my GPz1100 and killed himself on it. So his small-bike experience apparently didn't teach him anything about riding the bigger machines.

Swings and roundabouts, as they say.


Anecdotes can be made for anything really. Some of the best riders I know of died on bikes merely because they were taking more risks than other riders.

Plus you aren't supposed to shut the throttle in a tankslapper, you're supposed to accelerate through it... in theory... Braking shouldn't work as the slapper will push the brake pads away from the discs.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

Plus you aren't supposed to shut the throttle in a tankslapper, you're supposed to accelerate through it... in theory... Braking shouldn't work as the slapper will push the brake pads away from the discs.


"Supposed to"... Laughing
Have you experienced one? A proper lock-to-lock one, not just a bad shimmy?
I hadn't even passed my test yet, was about my third time out on it or something like that Laughing
But I would like to have seen the guy who thought he could take control of what that bike was doing. Ever tried to grip the bars - even lightly - on a heavy bike at high speed in a tank-slapper? I'm not talking about some lightweight, modern sports bike (which probably wouldn't have got into that situation in the first place).

But yes, there's an anecdote for everything. That's why I said "swings and roundabouts" Wink
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

Have you experienced one? A proper lock-to-lock one, not just a bad shimmy?


Yes, actually. That's how I broke my wrist and my foot on my Buell XB12S in 2011.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

Have you experienced one? A proper lock-to-lock one, not just a bad shimmy?


Yes, actually. That's how I broke my wrist and my foot on my Buell XB12S in 2011.


What, by accelerating through it? Laughing
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
What, by accelerating through it? Laughing


The correct phrase in this one is 'booting it'

MarJay will understand Crying or Very sad
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:


The correct phrase in this one is 'booting it'

MarJay will understand Crying or Very sad


I have no idea.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Paddy. wrote:


The correct phrase in this one is 'booting it'

MarJay will understand Crying or Very sad


I have no idea.


I hit an upturned size 14 boot in the road. The tankslapper was fairly inevitable. For what it's worth I attempted to make my hand open the throttle but judging by the state of both hands afterwards I doubt it did what I asked it to do... The slapper itself damaged both of my thumbs to the point where I could barely use them. The bike also has a notoriously steep geometry, so although it's stable in most circumstances, One imagines that when provoked it can be an animal. Well, I don't need to imagine, it happened to me.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


I hit an upturned size 14 boot in the road. The tankslapper was fairly inevitable. For what it's worth I attempted to make my hand open the throttle but judging by the state of both hands afterwards I doubt it did what I asked it to do... The slapper itself damaged both of my thumbs to the point where I could barely use them. The bike also has a notoriously steep geometry, so although it's stable in most circumstances, One imagines that when provoked it can be an animal. Well, I don't need to imagine, it happened to me.


Nasty!
That boot, it wasn't on the Ben Lawers circuit in Scotland was it? Only I lost one there Whistle Laughing

Nah, it's ok, I'm not a size 14 Smile

I can't really remember what happened with my experience exactly. I think I might actually have let go of the bars completely, hence no injuries. Well, might as well have, for all the good I felt I could do to save things. But you see what I mean about "in theory" Laughing
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

Nasty!
That boot, it wasn't on the Ben Lawers circuit in Scotland was it? Only I lost one there Whistle Laughing

Nah, it's ok, I'm not a size 14 Smile

I can't really remember what happened with my experience exactly. I think I might actually have let go of the bars completely, hence no injuries. Well, might as well have, for all the good I felt I could do to save things. But you see what I mean about "in theory" Laughing


Nasty indeed. I was almost killed by a Citroen picasso that day. I even imagined the newspaper headline "Man killed by Citroen Picasso". Weird the things that go through your mind.

It was on the A4074 near Reading. I went back and picked up the boot. The sole had started to come away from the upper and I reckon I hit it sole first. It was one of those hefty steel soled work boots. I burned it on new years eve that year, was quite cathartic.

Removing your hands completely from the bars might also have a similar effect to throttling on as it changes the loading on the other end of the forks which nominally would have the same effect I guess? What you don't want to do is snap the throttle shut with the same amount of weight on the front wheel as that deforms the tyre more. They reckon a tankslapper is caused by the rapid deformation of the tyre from side to side more than anything else...

At least that can't theoretically happen on a 600RR as it does have the automatic speed adjusting HESD.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 18 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
Removing your hands completely from the bars might also have a similar effect to throttling on as it changes the loading on the other end of the forks which nominally would have the same effect I guess? What you don't want to do is snap the throttle shut with the same amount of weight on the front wheel as that deforms the tyre more. They reckon a tankslapper is caused by the rapid deformation of the tyre from side to side more than anything else...

At least that can't theoretically happen on a 600RR as it does have the automatic speed adjusting HESD.


I don't know. But if I took my hands away from the bars, the throttle must have closed pretty smartly.
Anyway, it taught me to be more conscious of steering feedback, so I'd notice anything unusual sooner I guess. But more, at that time in my riding career, it taught me that yes, bikes are toys, but they're toys with a nasty bite; respect the toy!

What the heck is HESD? Embarassed
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 19 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:


I don't know. But if I took my hands away from the bars, the throttle must have closed pretty smartly.
Anyway, it taught me to be more conscious of steering feedback, so I'd notice anything unusual sooner I guess. But more, at that time in my riding career, it taught me that yes, bikes are toys, but they're toys with a nasty bite; respect the toy!

What the heck is HESD? Embarassed


Yeah the throttle would have snapped shut but you taking your hands off of the bars changes the harmonics of the front end, and removes a ton of weight from it at that moment which may have allowed it to settle. Some tank slappers are reputed to be worsened by tightening on the bars, so I can see that letting go could help.

HESD = Honda Electronic Steering Damper.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 19 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

HESD = Honda Electronic Steering Damper.


Ah, OK. The Jap manufacturers do like their acronyms, don't they?
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myvision
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 26 May 2016
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 19 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Enjoy the bike OP if that's what you want.

I bought an 02 Hornet after passing my DAS then within a few months i was on an 02 ZZR1200 couldn't get on with that bike so moved it on.

If you like it crack on.
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Jim Mc
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 17:53 - 19 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't listen to the bollocks on the first page with the "I have x years of experience" CBR600RR7 was my first bike and I've not killed myself yet. Just ride it like you stole it and you'll be fine.
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MikegJ
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 16 Feb 2019
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 19 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
So I took my beauty out for a good blast today. I had to go from Greenwich to dartford so I went the scenic route via Herne Bay, Margate and ramsgate 😂

The response to my post has been unbelievable thank you for the level of debate it’s been brilliant. But I need to set a few things straight.. I used to race 125 & 250 motor cross so although I’m new to road bikes I’m full aware how to open up the throttle granted it’s on sand, gravel, grass and mud. I’ve taken my tumbles, worst being throwing my self over the handle bars at 60mph to avoid a dog on track. THAT HURT. I’ve become good friends with my Instructor who has been out on a few rides with me. Superb guy superb knowledge. What I’m saying is I know my ability, and ive got the bike, fallen in love with the bike. So no point banging on about it, it’s done.

Please don’t stop posting the riding mishaps and brown pants moments I had a little one today when a women went from middle lane to outside lane for no apparent reason. Didn’t have to touch the brakes just ease of throttle but still!!

The one thing that does scare me owning a bike, wankers who want to steal it! Do you ever get over that feeling?
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MikegJ
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 19:39 - 19 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jim Mc wrote:
Don't listen to the bollocks on the first page with the "I have x years of experience" CBR600RR7 was my first bike and I've not killed myself yet. Just ride it like you stole it and you'll be fine.


I’m not going to go into details but I found a lot about the bike today 😉 as you’ve owned one am I right in saying this bike is Good?
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