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Jim Mc |
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Jim Mc Nearly there...
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MikegJ |
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MikegJ Two Stroke Sniffer
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:04 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Let's face it, modern sports bikes just aren't right for road use, full stop. You can't learn to get the best out of them on the road without extreme risk to your life. Perhaps they should only be sold as track bikes, illegal for the road? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:14 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Cars corner faster than bikes, the size of your wallet doesn't determine your riding skill. |
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:22 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | Let's face it, modern sports bikes just aren't right for road use, full stop. You can't learn to get the best out of them on the road without extreme risk to your life. Perhaps they should only be sold as track bikes, illegal for the road? |
I think you're the one who's arguing that, but I reckon a more experienced rider would not be shocked by ANY car on a 600RR on the road, nor could be caught out by other riders in corners on heavier slower bikes. |
I don't quite get your point there?
I have only been arguing that it's up to the OP what he buys and rides, and if he is happy with his choice, I don't see why I should be down on him for it. He asked for riding tips, not what bike he should get. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:04 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | I don't quite get your point there?
I have only been arguing that it's up to the OP what he buys and rides, and if he is happy with his choice, I don't see why I should be down on him for it. He asked for riding tips, not what bike he should get. |
I was referring to Jim Mc saying he can't do certain things, which (IMO) he may have a better ability to do with that bike had he spent more time on smaller bikes first before moving to the big bike. Once you get on a capable bike, a bike that is FAR more capable than the rider, you learn a lot less IMO. I suppose that is my point. |
So you can't offer him any riding tips, because you think he can't learn anything on this bike anyway then?
How about suggesting he drops his inside shoulder when cornering, shifts over on the seat a bit, experiment at slower speeds with counter-steering effects, experiment with pushing down on the foot pegs in corners etc? Can't you do these things on this bike? What exactly is it you are saying he can't learn on a CBR600RR? What do you think he can learn?* I mean, I get that he won't be able to post fantastic lap times for a while - but then again, who knows? Maybe he'll turn out to be a 'natural'?
*Perhaps he can learn to smile? Sorry, my turn to be facetious ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Posted: 16:21 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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chickenstrip wrote: | How about suggesting he drops his inside shoulder when cornering, shifts over on the seat a bit, experiment at slower speeds with counter-steering effects, experiment with pushing down on the foot pegs in corners etc? Can't you do these things on this bike? What exactly is it you are saying he can't learn on a CBR600RR? What do you think he can learn?* I mean, I get that he won't be able to post fantastic lap times for a while - but then again, who knows? Maybe he'll turn out to be a 'natural'?
*Perhaps he can learn to smile? Sorry, my turn to be facetious |
If he wants riding tips, then just subscribe to 'Life at lean' on Youtube, and watch his tips. I can give him one or two pointers, as can you but I can't flipping well teach him how to ride in one easy paragraph on a forum!
If he spent a few weekends riding with me, I could probably make him a better rider, but honestly? You think just telling him to drop his shoulder in a corner is going to help in any meaningful way?
I have been helping the GF out, having been through the formative stages of her riding career, and I've made her a better rider than I was after the same amount of time. She didn't have to learn from her mistakes in the same way I did, and she now has the road awareness and machine control to confidently handle her ER6. I still wouldn't want her to take my 600RR out though. I've been following her and observing her riding each time we go out, and I have also had to keep in mind that she's my girlfriend, and so I have to phrase my advice in a very careful way.
Looking at how I learned, I think I can be reasonably certain if I spent my first year of riding on a bike like a 600RR I probably would either have had a crash bad enough to put me off riding or worse.
I could now go onto a tirade about how weighting footpegs is entirely psychological, about counter steering being the only method of bike control worth it's salt, about how you need to avoid getting into a situation where you can physically interact with other traffic, how most accidents on motorcycles are single vehicle accidents etc etc... but it's pretty pointless seeing as:
a) That is basically my view of motorcycling, and although I've been working with my other half to improve her riding, I don't necessarily think it's the right thing to teach everyone at such an early stage of riding.
and
b) Someone will no doubt say I'm wrong and rip me to shreds anyway. On that basis, it's bloody difficult to get decent advice on internet forums and facebook, especially as the people who don't know what they are talking about are just as loud as those who are, and new riders aren't even experienced to pick out the good from the bad.
He should do what we ALL should have done, and that is seek out specialist tuition. However, if you're a new rider and arrogant/Dunning Krueger enough to buy a 600RR, you're probably too arrogant/Dunning Krueger to listen to advice, or seek out tuition.
Having helped to teach various subjects in my lifetime I can tell you that it's impossible to impart all of the information at once, and you have to start with the easy layers and get the student to master THAT before you go on to the complex stuff. If you're looking at ten or so layers of learning to ride from complete L plate newb to superbike master, footpeg weighting (if such a thing even really helps) is somewhere around layer 5 or so if not higher. No point running before you can walk, and no point riding a 600RR before you can actually ride.
Of course, as before I put the caveat that this is all in my opinion, and that is where these kind of things fall down. It's all opinion at the end of the day, and really the only way the OP or anyone else who has ridden nothing but a 600RR is going to properly improve is to seek out decent professional tuition. ____________________ British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
Last edited by MarJay on 16:29 - 21 Feb 2019; edited 1 time in total |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:26 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: |
If he wants riding tips, then just subscribe to 'Life at lean' on Youtube, and watch his tips. I can give him one or two pointers, as can you but I can't flipping well teach him how to ride in one easy paragraph on a forum!
If he spent a few weekends riding with me, I could probably make him a better rider, but honestly? You think just telling him to drop his shoulder in a corner is going to help in any meaningful way?
I have been helping the GF out, having been through the formative stages of her riding career, and I've made her a better rider than I was after the same amount of time. She didn't have to learn from her mistakes in the same way I did, and she now has the road awareness and machine control to confidently handle her ER6. I still wouldn't want her to take my 600RR out though. I've been following her and observing her riding each time we go out, and I have also had to keep in mind that she's my girlfriend, and so I have to phrase my advice in a very careful way.
I think I can be reasonably certain if I spent my first year of riding on a bike like a 600RR I probably would either have had a crash bad enough to put me off riding or worse.
I could go onto a tirade about how weighting footpegs is entirely psychological, about counter steering being the only method of bike control worth it's salt, about how you need to avoid getting into a situation where you can physically interact with other traffic, how most accidents on motorcycles are single vehicle accidents etc etc... but it's pretty pointless seeing as
a) That is basically my view of motorcycling, and although I've been working with my other half to improve her riding, I don't necessarily think it's the right thing to teach everyone at such an early stage of riding
and
b) someone will no doubt say I'm wrong and rip me to shreds anyway. On that basis, it's bloody difficult to get decent advice on internet forums and facebook, especially as the people who don't know what they are talking about are just as loud as those who are, and new riders aren't even experienced to pick out the good from the bad. |
You could have told him most of that in your first post, instead of having a go at him for what bike he bought
I mean, anyone would think he'd gone and lumbered himself with a cruiser ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:33 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
You could have told him most of that in your first post, instead of having a go at him for what bike he bought
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Or, he could learn how I learned... slowly over a period of time progressing from bike to bike. |
So has he completely buggered his chances of doing that now? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:39 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | So has he completely buggered his chances of doing that now? |
Yeah, I reckon so, or very nearly. The bike will mask bad habits, and only bite back at immensely high speeds. Things you learn on a 100 or 125 at safe speeds... |
Sorry OP, looks like it's time to quit bikes for you now ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:51 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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I've already forgotten everything I learnt on a 125 That experience actually made a big bike a bit more dangerous at the start, as I was deliberately trying to ride it in the same way as a tiddler, carrying high cornering speed when you don't really need to and with the extra weight being unable to wrestle the bike back if it goes wrong. |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:06 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | Sorry OP, looks like it's time to quit bikes for you now |
Or buy a smaller capacity machine to ride for a bit... |
I didn't think capacity was the problem here?
How do you learn to handle power if you never ride a powerful bike? How do you learn about riding a good handling bike if you never ride one? M.C has a good point. You change your approach for almost every bike you ride. So whilst there are things he could learn better on other bikes, to learn how to ride a sports bike with little mid-range it's surely better to ride a sports bike with little mid range? If he learns to ride, say, an ER6 first, he's still going to have to change how he rides again when he comes back to the CBR. Conversely, he could get maybe (for argument's sake only, honest! ) a cruiser next. Will he be able to ride that in the same way? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:09 - 21 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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MarJay wrote: | Things you learn on a 100 or 125 at safe speeds... |
...might seem a bit tame coming from an off-roading background ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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MarJay |
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MarJay But it's British!
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 64 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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