Bleeding hydraulics or "I fucking hate this clutch"

[ThatDippyTwat]

This VFR750 has me at the end of my tether. I cannot get pressure to build on the hydraulic side.

Rebuilt master cylinder, (cleaned & new seals), Nothing.
Rebuild slave cylinder, (cleaned & new seals), Nothing.
New HEL line and Banjo's? Nothing.
New Lever/Master? Nothing.
New copper washers all round, multiple times? Nothing.

Now, I've bled many clutches and brakes, without issue, before. I've just done the rear brake after replacing the fucked OEM line with zero issues, while having a break from trying to bleed the godamn clutch. I have a reverse/suction bleeder, I've tried pushing it up with a syringe. I've tried cracking the Banjo at the Master, and still nothing. This bitch will just not bleed.

Any ideas? Tips? I've gone through 500ml of DOT4 trying to get this bastard thing sorted.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Sister Sledge]

You obviously know what you're doing but I do have some suggestions: It was definitely clean when you rebuilt it?
You definitely put seals on in the correct orientation?
I do know that even a trapped hair can give problems.

Kinda making me panic because I'm about to flush new fluid through my brakes..
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CCM 404 DS

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Meatybeaty]

Are you getting Fluid at the slave?, have you tried leaving top off the MC make sure level is right , pull lever and tie it back with a zip tie , leave over night and see what its like in the morning

[Grubscrew]

If you are able to push fluid through the bleed nipple once open slightly that also helps also whilst clutch lever is pulled in. Failing that, run a small hose from the bleed nipple into the resivior whilst pulling in the lever in and out
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FJR1300/CBR1000F

[ThatDippyTwat]

Fluid a plenty at the slave.

Slave moves, but not much, certainly not enough to disengage properly. When taking the rear wheel off to get to the caliper and do the line change, I could get a tiny bit of movement in it with the clutch cable tied to the bars (on for about 8 hours this time, tried it several times after different things). That's why I think it's hydraulic. There is some pressure on the lever, but not much.

I've tried pushing the fluid up throughthe bleed nipple with a syringe. I've not tried running a line from the bleed nipple to the res, and if I'm honest about it, I don't see what it would accomplish. Can you explain?
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Meatybeaty]

Got a 93 vfr750 myself , but never had this trouble, just wondered did you buy a new set of levers (brake and clutch) and were they Chinese , only the shape of the pivot sometimes varies, just a thought

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Meatybeaty]

Yeh ,Im barking up the wrong tree there then, even being Chinese they would be built to match each other, so maybe have a look at the slave cylinder again, Do you have the Honda Common Manual, shows little more in depth there pages 11-27

[kgm]

Have you taken the bleed nipple out and checked it on its own to see if there's a blockage there? I spent a full day cursing and swearing at a brake system to find out it was the nipple that was blocked.

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Tankie]

If it was the nipple it would be leaking, you just still have air in the system
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Always learning, everyday is a school day

[Grubscrew]

[Sister Sledge]

Might sound silly but the replacement master cylinder - is it capable of delivering enough fluid per actuation? I'm just wondering if the correct one was supplied.

If you have trapped air - why not try vibrating the line and parts as you bleed them? It's just an idea and not anything I've actually seen. It works with concrete or resins so why not a brake line??
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CCM 404 DS

[steve the grease]

Fastening the lever back to the bars is a good way to check for master cyclinder leak down , but not a good way to bleed as the holes to the reservoir are blanked off , think about it if the holes to the reservoir were open , then the cylinder could not build up any pressure..........

[temeluchus]

get a clamp and clamp the slave cylinder piston all the way in, then go from there.

Always worked for me when bleeding the clutch and the clutch wasnt partying.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Teflon-Mike]

Have you tried strapping the clutch-lever back to the bar to hold the hydraulic pressure on the line; leave it over-night, then 'gently' bleed that bit of pressure off without any pumping?

Idea is that any trapped air in the line isn't allowed to 'dissolve' into the fluid, in ever smaller bubbles. The prolonged pressure gets the bubbles to migrate and join up, and float to the top. gentle relief of pressure then lets bubbles out, and not pumping stops putting any more in. If you get the sort of idea.

Found it works on a variety of hydraulics, usually brakes that don't seem to want to bleed.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[stinkwheel]

Try bleeding it at the top banjo. An air bubble can sit there and you'll get absolutely nowhere with it. Stick a rag under it and "slightly" crack it in the same way you would the bleed nipple as you pull the lever. If you get farty diarrhoea noises, you're bleeding air out. Continue until they go away and try again at the bottom.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Fisty]

[ThatDippyTwat]

I have tried bleeding from the top banjo, before I started fucking aruond with reverse bleeding and syringes etc. I'll try it again.

Ripped it all down again today, rebuilt the master, slave and cleaned all the lines and banjos. Everything meticulously cleaned.

Pulled clutch, and rebuilt it again, according to the Haynes manual. I'm not missing anything, assuming item 6 on the diagram is the springclip that goes in a groove around the pushy bit that goes in the bearing that goes in the pressure plate. Pretty sure it is.

I now get some disengagement, and if I put pressure on the rear wheel, I get some movement. Vids follow. Rear caliper is not binding, wheel spins freely in neutral - It's just been rebuilt.

Wheel movement.
https://i.imgur.com/SLt7Wct.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/r1pcLTp.mp4

It's better than it was. There is some pressure at the lever now. It's nowhere near what it was, but it's a light at the end of the tunnel, rather than the scrapper.
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'98 VFR800 (touring) - '12 VFR800 Crosrunner (Commuting) - '01 KDX220 (Big Green Antisocial Machine)

[Fisty]

I don't know about Honda, but all the Suzuki clutches I have done, the first plate is different to the rest.

Is this the case on yours?
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Quietly and consistently taking the piss.
TL1000R | Hayabusa | ZXR400 | TL1000S | Bandit 400 V
Fatter and faster than Fret

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Meatybeaty]

Hi matey , just along the same lines as fisty , although I'm sure you did, the spring seat and anti judder spring , sorry if you've already done this

[redeem ouzzer]

My 1100 is draggy as hell through the back wheel even when fully bled. Have you actually tried it with the engine running?
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Be a REAL MAN!