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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 06:14 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: New thoughts on tax avoidance and low tax |
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It occurred to me today that certain tax evading companies across the world are nothing but a burden and a drain on their host countries.
I can understand favourable tax measures for companies and industries that are in high requirement. But entities like Starbucks offer nothing that the UK population needs. They make coffee, FFS. They simply take a profit, send it back to their shareholders, and that's it. It's a cafe company, no major western nation is in dire need of more cafes.
I don't understand why such unimportant enterprises are given such an easy deal, allowed to engage in aggressive tax avoidance and siphoning as much as possible out of their host economy.
What I'm wondering is, in the hypothetical scenario where a nation banned non-vital foreign companies like Starbucks and instead promoted homegrown chains, meaning a whole lot more of the profits circulated back into the national economy (regardless of whether it ends up with shareholders, as tax or whatever else), would things be better, worse or the same? Is it viable, and how could it be achieved? |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 11:06 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Governments could close tax loopholes if they wanted to.
The question is why don't they?
Maybe they get backhanders or the promise of a seat on the board after they are kicked out of parliament by the great unwashed.
Or maybe they get free coffee. ____________________ Triumph Trophy Launch Edition |
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Skudd |
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Skudd Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
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sickpup |
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sickpup Old Timer
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 13:15 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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sickpup wrote: | mpd72 CPT wrote: | Many of the tax loopholes which rob the UK are created and made possible by the EU, such as the Double Irish and Dutch Sandwich. We'll soon be out of the EU and can do more to stop these.
The Double Irish loophole is already closed to new firms, but still open to existing firms until the end of next year. It was great for saving the Irish economy at the expense, mainly of the UK economy.
Facebook.ie, Google Ireland... year right.. Dell Ireland. |
These rackets are perfectly possible without the EU so please try again.
After all Apple have been accused quite rightly of keeping cash reserves overseas so they don't have to pay tax when they bring it into the USA. I'm pretty sure the USA isn't part of the EU but perhaps you can confirm that for me? Of course confirming it would mean this is a worldwide problem not one specific to those fiends in the EU that you so enjoy vilifying. |
You're purely concentrating on US lost revenue on goods and services provided in Europe, conveniently ignoring the one we should be bothered about, lost UK tax revenue for goods and services provided here.
The only reason Google, Facefart and Starbucks can use Ireland as a pretend base and trade in the UK, is because we're both in the EU and both in the single market, which Ireland abused with low corporation tax to get themselves out of recession knowing EU rules would attract firms trading in the UK there, to pay them tax, not us.
Perhaps you'd like to confirm that we both currently aren't in the EU or single market?
If we were not in the EU and single market, neither the Double Irish or Dutch sandwich would be possible in the UK.
Sorry, but that's a fact. EU rules make it possible for US firms to avoid paying proper UK tax. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 15:37 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Rogerborg got really upset when I posted this before: The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire (Documentary). I don't agree with all their points, I thought the whole offshore thing came about because Britain didn't want to be financially responsible for colonies anymore, but like with all these things look at the evidence and form your own conclusions. |
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sickpup |
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sickpup Old Timer
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 18:57 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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mpd72 CPT wrote: | You're purely concentrating on US lost revenue on goods and services provided in Europe, conveniently ignoring the one we should be bothered about, lost UK tax revenue for goods and services provided here. |
No I'm not.
mpd72 CPT wrote: | The only reason Google, Facefart and Starbucks can use Ireland as a pretend base and trade in the UK, is because we're both in the EU and both in the single market, which Ireland abused with low corporation tax to get themselves out of recession knowing EU rules would attract firms trading in the UK there, to pay them tax, not us. |
No it's because every country in the world sets its own tax rate and in some cases this has been deemed ilegal state subsidy by the EU.
mpd72 CPT wrote: | If we were not in the EU and single market, neither the Double Irish or Dutch sandwich would be possible in the UK.
Sorry, but that's a fact. EU rules make it possible for US firms to avoid paying proper UK tax. |
No, WTO trade and taxation rules do that to stop double taxation so no not a fact. |
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Grubscrew |
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Grubscrew Scooby Slapper
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 21:10 - 18 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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sickpup wrote: | mpd72 CPT wrote: | You're purely concentrating on US lost revenue on goods and services provided in Europe, conveniently ignoring the one we should be bothered about, lost UK tax revenue for goods and services provided here. |
No I'm not.
mpd72 CPT wrote: | The only reason Google, Facefart and Starbucks can use Ireland as a pretend base and trade in the UK, is because we're both in the EU and both in the single market, which Ireland abused with low corporation tax to get themselves out of recession knowing EU rules would attract firms trading in the UK there, to pay them tax, not us. |
No it's because every country in the world sets its own tax rate and in some cases this has been deemed ilegal state subsidy by the EU.
mpd72 CPT wrote: | If we were not in the EU and single market, neither the Double Irish or Dutch sandwich would be possible in the UK.
Sorry, but that's a fact. EU rules make it possible for US firms to avoid paying proper UK tax. |
No, WTO trade and taxation rules do that to stop double taxation so no not a fact. |
The EU already has some control over other countries tax, including our minimum allowed VAT level. It is also removing the veto so it can have full control over taxation in the EU.
Fact. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG.
Last edited by - on 22:48 - 18 Feb 2019; edited 1 time in total |
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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Posted: 08:52 - 19 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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Germany, France and Holland all have different VAT rates. ____________________ Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
HAHAHA HAHAHA Blew Chilly MyCrowSystems |
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Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche... Nearly there...
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- Super Spammer
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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Posted: 16:39 - 19 Feb 2019 Post subject: Re: New thoughts on tax avoidance and low tax |
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Lord Percy wrote: | What I'm wondering is, in the hypothetical scenario where a nation banned non-vital foreign companies like Starbucks and instead promoted homegrown chains, meaning a whole lot more of the profits circulated back into the national economy (regardless of whether it ends up with shareholders, as tax or whatever else), would things be better, worse or the same? Is it viable, and how could it be achieved? |
Companies will avoid paying taxes where possible. Big companies have more money to spend on ways of avoiding tax.
So in your scenario, where it looks like we're replacing Starbucks with a hypothetical British equivalent, the new company will do just the same thing. You give it that kind of money and market share, and it will find new ways to avoid paying tax.
The reason they get away with it is because they're doing nothing illegal, although it is unethical. You're also wrong in your initial premise that they do nothing important. Whilst they don't provide any kind of critical service, people like starbucks coffee. One important factor for a lot of people when choosing a job is the distance to the nearest coffee shop of their choice.
They also employ an awful lot of people, and are largely responsible for making "barista" a profession, which means people who make coffee can get paid more than 20 years ago. Higher pay means higher income tax.
All in all, they get away with, as do the other big tax avoiders, because the overall cost and impact of changing the system isn't worth it.
As for other countries, it is worth mentioning that the big coffee chain in Canada is Tim Horton's, a Canadian company. A big part of the reason they're big is that Canadians like to buy local. A big part of the reason that Starbucks is so popular here is that British people like to buy popular brands. Changing that culture wouldn't be easy, but you would need to start with having some British brands worth buying. |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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bhinso |
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bhinso World Chat Champion
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sickpup |
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sickpup Old Timer
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- Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:57 - 19 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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sickpup wrote: | mpd72 CPT wrote: | The EU sets a minimum allowed standard VAT rate, currently at 15%.
No member state can charge lower as a standard rate. So they do already, as I said by Cocklio did his usual ignorant yapping over, have some control over taxation of member states.
With the removing of the veto, soon they'll have a lot more control over each member state. |
So your'e saying the EU doesn't have full control at present so it's not their fault but they soon will have full control so will be able to close the loop holes? Why are you arguing for the EU? |
You wot mate? You’re trying to make a link which wasn’t claimed.
I was merely claiming that Cucklio thinking the EU has no control over member states taxes is bollocks, which it is.
The EU already have some control over member states tax affairs, especially VAT. The recent change to remove the veto and replace with QMV on taxation control, is so they can move to more central control over taxation. This is no secret, they even admit it.
The loopholes I mentioned are also only made possible by the EU single market taxation rules. Fact.
I’m not sure how you managed to turn those well known facts into another bitching session, but hey ho. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 Sport R, VW Transporter T5 GP LWB Shuttle 140ps DSG. |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB |
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:58 - 19 Feb 2019 Post subject: |
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I never said that the EU had no control over it. I asked you
What's the minimum VAT allowed then? And why aren't all EU countries setting the VAT at the same level?
Perhaps if you had spent time at school actually learning to read, you would have figured that out.
So, care to try again? Why aren't all EU countries setting the VAT at the same level? ____________________ Mpd72: I can categorically say i’m Brighter than that, no matter how I come across on here.
HAHAHA HAHAHA Blew Chilly MyCrowSystems |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 60 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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