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Is auto stop start a good thing?

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:

Hers is a Dualogic, this means it has a manual box but controlled by the car.

The stop start can come on whenever the car is stationary and the brake on. If you pull up to a junction or roundabout and stop briefly before intending to go it can kick in right when you want to pull out.


Mine, being an automatic, does the same.

If you actually come to a stop with your foot on the brake the engine will stop.

I'm sure sometimes the engine hasn't even stopped before it tries to start again if you just dab the brake.
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weasley
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
My SEAT Leon (DSG) will shut down just before you come to a standstill, meaning you immediately lose the electric power steering and sometimes means it’ll stop just as you decide to get going again, having not actually stopped because I try to anticipate traffic to avoid stopping.

It functions perfectly, I just don’t like how it functions.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow it sounds even worse with a auto/semi auto gearbox Shocked Is there genuinely no way to permanently disable it... yank a fuse? Smile
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M.C
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
weasley wrote:
My SEAT Leon (DSG)

Off topic but what are they like for parking, low speed driving?
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LustyLew
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
weasley wrote:
My SEAT Leon (DSG) will shut down just before you come to a standstill, meaning you immediately lose the electric power steering and sometimes means it’ll stop just as you decide to get going again, having not actually stopped because I try to anticipate traffic to avoid stopping.

It functions perfectly, I just don’t like how it functions.


Weird. My Fabia (which is almost the same car) the Stop/Start doesn't do that.

How old is your Leon? Maybe it needs new software? Mine only seems to activate when I'm in neutral and off the clutch. As soon as I put pressure on the clutch, the engine is back on.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Wow it sounds even worse with a auto/semi auto gearbox Shocked Is there genuinely no way to permanently disable it... yank a fuse? Smile


I've just about got in the habit of pressing the off button whenever I get in the car now.

My worry is wifie. It hasn't worked when she's driven it. If she takes it out and the engines stops at the lights or whatever she will have a panic attack and try to start it with the start button. Then take her foot off the brake and push the accelerator hard down while she hits the start button and the car will shoot off and embed itself in some oncoming vehicle.

Yes, I haven't got the greatest faith in her mechanical affinity. Laughing

The Jaguar owners club say the second smaller battery controls the auto stop start (yes 2 bloody batteries Rolling Eyes ) I shall have to look into the system more closely.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


I've just about got in the habit of pressing the off button whenever I get in the car now.



This is what my missus does too, I have searched for a way to disable it fully, I even have the proper software to plug the car in no option it would seem.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
LustyLew wrote:
weasley wrote:
My SEAT Leon (DSG) will shut down just before you come to a standstill, meaning you immediately lose the electric power steering and sometimes means it’ll stop just as you decide to get going again, having not actually stopped because I try to anticipate traffic to avoid stopping.

It functions perfectly, I just don’t like how it functions.


Weird. My Fabia (which is almost the same car) the Stop/Start doesn't do that.

How old is your Leon? Maybe it needs new software? Mine only seems to activate when I'm in neutral and off the clutch. As soon as I put pressure on the clutch, the engine is back on.

I've not driven one but aren't DSGs semi-auto, so no clutch pedal just paddle shifters?

Polarbear wrote:
M.C wrote:
Wow it sounds even worse with a auto/semi auto gearbox Shocked Is there genuinely no way to permanently disable it... yank a fuse? Smile


I've just about got in the habit of pressing the off button whenever I get in the car now.

I did that with the vehicles I drove at work but it was still annoying. Depending on what car I get next I might seek one out without start/stop Thinking
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Monkeywrenche...
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
weasley wrote:
My SEAT Leon (DSG)

Off topic but what are they like for parking, low speed driving?

Exactly like an auto, smooth and easy.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

Polarbear wrote:


I've just about got in the habit of pressing the off button whenever I get in the car now.

I did that with the vehicles I drove at work but it was still annoying. Depending on what car I get next I might seek one out without start/stop Thinking


Are all cars made with auto S/S now or was it just a fad for a few years?
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mine is a DSG and yes it's auto but it has many variants. I can use wheel paddles, let the box do the work or knock the gear lever over and knock it forwards or back to select gears.

Someone asked about parking. I knock the auto start off so forget that but mine can have an auto handbrake selected. You place it into gear and very gently tap the accelerator pedal which releases the handbrake.
The problem with auto handbrake and DSG together is that it can launch if you're not careful which means parking and shuffling can be an art form!
Personally I think my car has just too much tech. Yes I believe you can have too much in one small package. Sure it's a good car to drive(best I've ever driven actually) but it can be a right pain in the arse at times with the tech.

Finally, the stop start. Yes it can be switched off with a button but sometimes it switches back on whilst I'm driving - it used to catch me out badly at first but not now.
My next car? An electric milk float..
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Are all cars made with auto S/S now or was it just a fad for a few years?

I assume it's standard now with emission regs getting tighter.

Sister Sledge wrote:
Mine is a DSG and yes it's auto but it has many variants. I can use wheel paddles, let the box do the work or knock the gear lever over and knock it forwards or back to select gears.

Someone asked about parking. I knock the auto start off so forget that but mine can have an auto handbrake selected. You place it into gear and very gently tap the accelerator pedal which releases the handbrake.
The problem with auto handbrake and DSG together is that it can launch if you're not careful which means parking and shuffling can be an art form!
Personally I think my car has just too much tech. Yes I believe you can have too much in one small package. Sure it's a good car to drive(best I've ever driven actually) but it can be a right pain in the arse at times with the tech.

Finally, the stop start. Yes it can be switched off with a button but sometimes it switches back on whilst I'm driving - it used to catch me out badly at first but not now.
My next car? An electric milk float..

I'm shit enough at parking without any of that Smile auto (electronic?) handbrake is another thing I don't want, I'm gonna end like Stevo driving around in a 30 year old car Very Happy

I get confused by all the variants, tiptronic, s-tronic, from what I've read the dual clutch boxes are meant to be better at low speed/parking etc., I want one as having a gear lever to fondle just feels old fashioned, and with paddle shifters I can pretend I'm a racing driver Cool
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Are all cars made with auto S/S now or was it just a fad for a few years?

I assume it's standard now with emission regs getting tighter.


It's not just that. Daytime running lights (for those countries where it's mandatory), electric power steering, low displacement turbo engines, LEDs where ever it is possible, even planned engine oil consumption... all these little things make the cars green enough. Especially the electric power steering, as a hydraulic unit ''burns'' fuel 100% of the time the engine is running, while the electric unit only ''burns'' fuel while the steering box is active (you turning the wheel) and planned engine oil consumption, which significantly reduces the internal friction of the engine.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
B5234FT wrote:

The only way it could have resulted in the nose of the vehicle sticking out of a junction is if you lifted the clutch as it was starting and if you do that, itll then stop (most modern cars have a clutch switch interlock).

You can do the same if you dip the clutch, press the starter button and then raise the clutch immediately, it'll cut off again.


No. The start stop is faulty. It is, in fact broken and incapable of restarting the engine. When it went, it failed to start the engine properly so as I lifted the clutch, the vehicle jumped forwards slightly with the remaining "spin" in the system then stopped again with the nose sticking out in the junction. If it was working properly, it would have had the engine running before I could have even moved it into gear.

If you turn start-stop on manually now, it will stop when you change into neutral and lift your foot off the clutch as normal. When you dip the clutch, It attempts to start the van, fails to do so, shows an error message on the centre console then turns the start-stop system off. You then have to turn the ignition all the way off and start it on the key as if it was a cold start.

It has no issues turning the engine over on the key, even on a really cold morning.

I'm pretty sure it's a capacitor-backed reversible alternator on mine that does the start-stop bit and not a conventional starter motor. An auto re-start sounds and feels entirely differently to a "normal" start. No high pitched "cawing" and the engine throws itself about a lot more but picks up more quickly/instantly, a bit like a bike motor that was waiting just on compression and needs nudging over a degree or two to fire. I believe this is actually the case with these systems, the crank position sensor lets it know the optimum position to halt the engine in for a rapid restart?

Anyway, I'm not sorry it's broken because it annoys the shit out of me.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
I get confused by all the variants, tiptronic, s-tronic, from what I've read the dual clutch boxes are meant to be better at low speed/parking etc., I want one as having a gear lever to fondle just feels old fashioned, and with paddle shifters I can pretend I'm a racing driver Cool


There are pretty much only 4 variants.
1) Standard AT with torque converter, which has a set of couplings between all the gears, all on one shaft. - The best in terms of durability and being very idiotproof and affordable, worst MPG.

2) Robotised manual gearbox, it's a standard manual gearbox with standard clutch, but instead of you moving selectors around and operating the clutch, it's being operated by actuators and you only press +/- or D, N, R, P. - Rather expensive, used in many BMW cars.

3) Dual clutch systems, sort of like the robotised one but with two smaller clutches, gears are pre-selected and ready to be engaged. - Very fast gear changes (I drove a DSG Superb and was amazed), but also the least idiotproof gearbox which suffers from crawling (slowly moving by just releasing the brake pedal) and holding the car in an incline (parking, stop sign... on a slope), the first clutch will burn, very quickly if you do that a lot and then you're going nowhere. Which is something that could never happen with a standard AT (1) which has a torque converter.

4) CVT, scooters and some cars, a metal belt on two rollers. - The most expensive solution giving you the perfect torque every time. I've never had a chance to drive a car with such gearbox, but I get the idea being familiar with what a scooter does. Steady revs, while the vehicle accelerates.
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Last edited by RhynoCZ on 21:06 - 20 Feb 2019; edited 1 time in total
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
It's not just that. Daytime running lights (for those countries where it's mandatory), electric power steering, low displacement turbo engines, LEDs where ever it is possible, even planned engine oil consumption... all these little things make the cars green enough. Especially the electric power steering, as a hydraulic unit ''burns'' fuel 100% of the time the engine is running, while the electric unit only ''burns'' fuel while the steering box is active (you turning the wheel) and planned engine oil consumption, which significantly reduces the internal friction of the engine.

I drove home in the dark with DRL the other night Embarassed Normally I do the opposite and leave my lights on as there's no light on the dash unless I flash my lights and get the full beam warning. Planned oil consumption and electric steering sound particularly shit Confused
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
I drove home in the dark DRL the other night Embarassed Normally I do the opposite and leave my lights on as there's no light on the dash unless I flash my lights and get the full beam warning.

It's not just the dark, it's also in heavy rain, fog, snow conditions. People do not realise that the tail lights are off, when the DRLs are on. A white, grey etc. car in heavy rain/snow is invisible from behind, when the tail lights are off.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
M.C wrote:
I drove home in the dark DRL the other night Embarassed Normally I do the opposite and leave my lights on as there's no light on the dash unless I flash my lights and get the full beam warning.

It's not just the dark, it's also in heavy rain, fog, snow conditions. People do not realise that the tail lights are off, when the DRLs are on. A white, grey etc. car in heavy rain/snow is invisible from behind, when the tail lights are off.

What about silver? Very Happy Embarassed Without DRLs you would tweak oh I haven't got my lights on, it's just around town you use dipped beams so it looks the same.

I never used to do it before its just this car (bad workman blaming his tools), even the dash has adjustable lighting so you can still see it at night with your lights off.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I rely on the auto lights. They turn on when it's still pretty light.

The one on my car that amazes me is the auto dipped/high beam.

How it works, and it actually does work, i have yet to investigate.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
I rely on the auto lights. They turn on when it's still pretty light.

The one on my car that amazes me is the auto dipped/high beam.

How it works, and it actually does work, i have yet to investigate.

Do they dip automatically so you don't blind oncoming traffic? That would be an improvement in driving experience Smile One issue I have with dipped beams around town is with speed humps and sometimes on hills you're still dazzled by them.

I'd also like to try an auto parking thingy because as mentioned shit at parking Embarassed and if they work well it might be safer looking around for pedestrians that always seem to like to walk behind reversing cars.

As we seem to be talking about every gadget Shifty has anyone driven a car with a collision avoidance system?
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 20 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:


Even more happily, it now defaults to start-stop off. The main dealer neither noticed nor mentioned this when it went in for its first service. Nor did they fix its tendancy to reset itself to kmh, lock-out all the radio controls or reset the language settings to French

Yay, Citroen.



OT but keep your eye on that, it's an early sign of body control module (BSI) failure.

In common with a lot of vehicles, the BSI uses the instrument pack as it's central gateway and failure can lead to sudden and total non start - particularly watch out for a flashing odometer; that can be imminent failure and it's other party trick is to zero the mileage, which might sound like a good thing, but it's tricky to explain when you come to sell it.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:49 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
TLDR version: My missus has a fiat 500, it's a bit naff


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biker7
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PostPosted: 07:41 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Always turn my stop/start off as soon as I get the engine on. PIA, otherwise, thinking it's stalled. I like to be poised at the lights to be away quick if I'm first but then I'm in bike mentality, even when driving. As for saving the planet....petrol heads don't do much of that anyway! Do any bikes have it? One of my cars has it, not the other. Good reason for buying an old car, maybe. Very Happy
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting comments about the auto start - mine has a strange sound too. It's definitely at the optimum position to start because it's instant despite being a diesel.

MC it gets worse: Mine's a 2 litre diesel and so should need a large battery for cranking amps - no. Seems they've plonked a small battery on mine which is part of the eco thing. Linked to that is an alternator with an electronic clutch. It only charges when needed and doesn't waste fuel spinning the alternator pointlessly. Mine does 'regenerative charging' which means when I brake the electronic clutch on the alternator engages. That helps brake me and charges the battery without using fuel.
Oh and every bulb in my car, inside and out is full LED. Saves on wasted leccy too it seems.
Paddles for gears can be fun yes but in everyday driving it's a little too much, especially with having a DSG box - you cannot do better changes than what a DSG box gives. Imagine a normal auto car where you feel those slightly sluggish but smooth gear changes - mine doesn't do that. The changes cannot be felt. Floor it and the changes happen but there's no sensation of it except to see the revs needle swing. It's like when an airplane takes off - no gears felt.
Just remembered: The engine in mine even has a water cooled exhaust manifold. Yup - not as you expect it but simply more water cooling where the exhaust gases leave the cylinder head. It helps the engine heat quickly to efficient operating temperatures and again makes it greener. Gone are the early days of Vauxhall diesels smoking and clanking their way out the estate at 10 mph on cold mornings!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
I rely on the auto lights. They turn on when it's still pretty light.

The one on my car that amazes me is the auto dipped/high beam.

How it works, and it actually does work, i have yet to investigate.

Do they dip automatically so you don't blind oncoming traffic? That would be an improvement in driving experience Smile One issue I have with dipped beams around town is with speed humps and sometimes on hills you're still dazzled by them.

I'd also like to try an auto parking thingy because as mentioned shit at parking Embarassed and if they work well it might be safer looking around for pedestrians that always seem to like to walk behind reversing cars.

As we seem to be talking about every gadget Shifty has anyone driven a car with a collision avoidance system?


It puts itself on hi beam when there is nothing coming and dips when there is. It's uncanny! Obviously light sensors somewhere but it works amazingly well.
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