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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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 Posted: 19:34 - 16 Apr 2019  Post subject: |
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I have the same letter but if I put my bike reg into the ULEZ checker it still says I am subject to the charge. I expect it's just an admin delay but I've been in the ULEZ last week so waiting to see if I get a letter through or not.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| Old Sod |
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Old Sod
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Joined: 16 Apr 2019
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Posted: 21:52 - 16 Apr 2019  Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: |
(snipped)
What you wrote above is very interesting. I just got wind of someone putting an old (early 80s) 4-cylinder 4-stroke (air-cooled, carburettored) bike through an approved TfL emissions testing station, and it passed easily, apparently. TfL sent him a letter acknowledging this and removing his bike (but only his and not every model of that bike, mind) from their ULEZ charging system. |
Good for him!
I got an email back from Colin Brown, MAG's Director of Campaigns and Political Engagement, giving a link to an Excel spreadsheet for all types of vehicles. There are a few bikes that will breach the 0.15g/km, and oddly enough they are four strokes of less than 150cc and pre-Euro4. Four strokes of 150 - 250 don't fare quite so well, pre-Euro4 coming out above 0.15g/km. 250 - 750 Euro2 and greater are fine, and all the over 750's are clean. BUT, this is a spreadsheet that has been created by a MODELLING program, so there's a good possibility that real life analysing might show better results all round.
And those stinky two strokes - heh heh - less than 0.04g/km!
The link: https://naei.beis.gov.uk/resources/rtp_Copert5_NOxEFs_final.xlsx
With regard to 'Historics', Colin writes to say Roger Bibbings from the VMCC is doing some work on this, and has this quote from TfL:
"The ULEZ vehicle checker (found here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle-35896) only checks the emissions status of the vehicle, it does not take into account any exemption or discount that may apply to your vehicle.
This means it will reflect the vehicles compliance with ULEZ emissions standards, as demonstrated by either the Euro standard of the vehicle, Certificate of Compliance, or proof of emissions from an accredited test centre.
Vehicles registered with the DVLA with a historic tax class are an exemption and therefore will not be reflected in the emissions database, however if you attempt to pay for a vehicle which is exempt, our system will not accept the payment"
It is suggested that there will be many complaints raised by folk who are fined when their vehicle is actually exempt, and from those who pay the charge because they believe the online checker. We will be doing all we can to ensure that all complaints are formalised through the TfL complaints procedure to highlight the problems.
I would therefore encourage you to use the complaints procedure here: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ulez-make-an-enquiry-wizard
You can see their complaints policy here: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-complaints-handling-procedure.pdf
I'm not actively involved in MAG, just a member, but they need all the support available - i.e. subscriptions!
https://www.mag-uk.org/en/index/a6296  |
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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Posted: 23:22 - 25 Apr 2019  Post subject: |
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If you have a historic bike or are looking for emissions testing info and exemption for your older bike, you're on your own.
Unfortunately, I have to say that the things written here in this forum thread about possible exemptions and such hold no water. If Ronseal does what it says on the tin, MAG is the opposite of Ronseal and are best left out of the loop (as they apparently prefer, from my recent experience with them). In short, I tried to talk with them to get more info about what could be involved in the emissions testing process for a 1990s bike (i.e. is it static or roller, NOx-only or CO), and they had no knowledge of nor interest in the subject. It was just tombolas, beer, hamburgers, Ebay patches and hardly-ridden Harleys. Pretty bizarre really, as their website is as focussed as anything and doesn't mention how uncool they consider this subject as a discussion point.
Will be talking to that testing station in Bow next, and then to TfL. A shame we don't have a riders' rights advocacy group. |
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| colink98 |
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colink98
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Posted: 07:46 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: | If you have a historic bike or are looking for emissions testing info and exemption for your older bike, you're on your own.
Unfortunately, I have to say that the things written here in this forum thread about possible exemptions and such hold no water. If Ronseal does what it says on the tin, MAG is the opposite of Ronseal and are best left out of the loop (as they apparently prefer, from my recent experience with them). In short, I tried to talk with them to get more info about what could be involved in the emissions testing process for a 1990s bike (i.e. is it static or roller, NOx-only or CO), and they had no knowledge of nor interest in the subject. It was just tombolas, beer, hamburgers, Ebay patches and hardly-ridden Harleys. Pretty bizarre really, as their website is as focussed as anything and doesn't mention how uncool they consider this subject as a discussion point.
Will be talking to that testing station in Bow next, and then to TfL. A shame we don't have a riders' rights advocacy group. |
These 'club' style organisations aye seem to go the same way.
They do not have any teeth or sway with the politicians. They are offered lip service.
They had zero effect in stopping the fucking wankers DSA from going ahead with their ludicrous scheme of 'off road' testing for the eu 3rd directive.
They, together with some bearded bastirts from the cuntinent made a lot of noise in their respective governments and at Brussels with ZERO change.
The cnuts who change things are government.
We have elections and stuff in democratic states but that is only a show.
Pressure groups don't always work.
I think nuclear disarmament came about because the Ruskies became bankrupt due to their stupid fcuking Cum-unism the protesters were only dreaming.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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| Old Sod |
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Old Sod
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Posted: 09:42 - 26 Apr 2019  Post subject: |
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Groups, or no group, there are few ways of influencing government no matter what approach is taken. If 17.4 million people can be ignored, what chance a few bikers or their groups.
Grass roots is the only way - Pete, take copies and snow them under. You appear to have proof of exemption, so use it - again and again and again.
More voices here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fk5kBvrUQ
One for Sadiq:
https://i.ibb.co/gtn41Rh/000a-fingers-026.jpg |
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| Tdibs |
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Tdibs
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Posted: 13:00 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| Old Sod wrote: | Groups, or no group, there are few ways of influencing government no matter what approach is taken. If 17.4 million people can be ignored, what chance a few bikers or their groups.
Grass roots is the only way - Pete, take copies and snow them under. You appear to have proof of exemption, so use it - again and again and again.
More voices here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9fk5kBvrUQ
One for Sadiq:
https://i.ibb.co/gtn41Rh/000a-fingers-026.jpg |
That's not Sad-dick in that photo.
That's Tony Thatcher. No?
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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| Posted: 13:20 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| Tdibs wrote: | Out of interest, what is the biggest factor holding back ~90's carb'd bike(s)? Lack of a cat/ais? |
Without giving too much away to TfL or anti-bike types who probably read this stuff with a certain glee, it's easy to get 1990s carb'd bikes through an emissions test if, as is suggested, NOx at a max of 0.15g/km is the only thing for which they test. This is because it's swings and roundabout between different types of emissions. More of one and less of the other sort of thing.
The issue is, in some cases manufacturers do not hold any NOx data at all for 1990s bikes - nobody was measuring for NOx back then. This is why a TfL-approved testing station was set up in Bow, East London. The suggestion is, and it doesn't seem to be confirmed at all but just a rumour at this point, that TfL will definitely accept NOx certification from that garage/testing station only. The problems are, among others:
1) Other emissions regions and zones across the country are in the pipeline, and nobody knows whether they will all accept NOx-only accreditation for 1990s bikes.
2) The accredited test is expensive.
With regard to point (2), for a large number of 1990s carb'd bikes, it's important to have clarification about what the test actually involves and which gases it measures. Also, it's important to confirm that TfL and/or other councils will actually accept a certificate from that testing station. If they're testing for more than NOx, it's a waste of time and money to put a 1990s bike through that test. If TfL might not accept the results of the test and grant an exemption, it would likewise be a waste of time and money. |
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| R1stu |
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R1stu
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Posted: 15:02 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Wot do the graphs show mate?
(Im not certain but I think the 1st one is your ECG whilst stood on one peg, battering around marble arch roundabout with a bird (you dont even know) on the back and an Indian carryout in one hand.)
I'm shite at understanding graphs. 
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN. |
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| R1stu |
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R1stu
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| Posted: 15:13 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| MCN wrote: |
Wot do the graphs show mate?
(Im not certain but I think the 1st one is your ECG whilst stood on one peg, battering around marble arch roundabout with a bird (you dont even know) on the back and an Indian carryout in one hand.)
I'm shite at understanding graphs. |
The middle graph I think. NoX 0.22
____________________
Carbon closet tart! https://www.bikepics.com/members/r6stuk/02r6/
Stolen bike. 2000 R1: https://www.bikepics.com/members/r6stuk/00r1/
Current bike 1991 Honda ST1100 Pan European, 1986 Honda cb350sg (Finished) |
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| MCN |
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MCN
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| Old Sod |
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Old Sod
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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| Posted: 16:36 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Bearing in mind the info here:
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/march/ulez-test/
https://www.nationalemissionstestcentre.com/
it seems to be crystal clear now that they're only checking for NOx.
But the graphs for that example seem a bit unclear. The top graph has rpm on the y-axis, but the units are in increments of 20 up to 140, which is a bit confusing. If these numbers are in hundreds, then it suggests that the bike was blipped to 14krpm at one moment in the 3-minute test. I can't see any reason why they should do that, so they probably didn't.
Did they hold it open or just keep blipping it for 3 minutes? |
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| R1stu |
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R1stu
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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Old Sod
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| MCN |
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MCN
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Old Sod
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| Posted: 08:18 - 28 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Came a cross this today through an email :
https://www.londonreconnections.com/2019/ulez-why-the-slightly-lower-emission-zone-matters/
Be warned, it comes with a TfL sponsorship, and judging by the quality or lack thereof in the 'comments', make sure your heart pills are to hand . . . .
Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity cannot. I think I would live longer - not through breathing Londons air (not that I do now, though far cleaner than when I grew up there), but refraining from reading crap on the internet. |
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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| Posted: 12:25 - 28 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Manufacture consent by paying a media/IT content creator firm, and if all else fails drag out the rent-a-mob lot, Eradication Rebellion or even schoolchildren. Yes, it seems to be their usual tactic. They play dirty.
One of the problems with ULEZ exemptions for motorcycles is that, given what they're trying to say through paid-for websites like that one, TfL do seem to be frothing at the mouth for a shifting-the-goalposts move after so-called "ULEZ Phase 2". Phase 1 is in effect, and it's currently possible with a lot of effort and some expense to work around it. Phase 2 will likely be the same, but in my assessment nothing will satisfy them until private vehicles are eradicated and there is no longer any competition for rail and bus travel (hence, they say "electric vehicles aren't the solution").
I reckon this means they will say, in the run-up to 2021, that Euro 3 for bikes isn't good enough and the goalposts need to move to Euro 4.
There's big money behind all this. Heathrow expansion is never mentioned as a cause for pollution or even the destruction of whole villages - Heathrow airport is owned by Chinese big money, London is owned by Russian, Chinese and Arab investment and holding companies. There seems to be only judicial review left. |
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Old Sod
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MCN
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 356 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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