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Freshening up after a short (9 year) break

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nick307
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Freshening up after a short (9 year) break Reply with quote

Having passed my big bike test last august, and after getting extremely bored with my absolutely shocking SYM 125, I started looking around for a nice juicy 600 to start riding instead.

I managed to get my hands on a 55 plate Bandit 650s! 3500 miles from new, one careful older gentleman owner, barely a mark on the thing! MOT history and HPI checks all check out so it's pretty certainly a genuine bike with very low miles!

Only issue is that he put it to bed late 2009 and since then its done 20 miles to go and get its MOT in December 2018, so safe to say it's gonna need some freshening up before I can get out on the road and properly enjoy it!

Symptoms of storage:
Runs rough as a badgers a*se for the first minute when cold, then gets progressively better and better until its purring away beautifully after 5 minutes of wiggling the throttle. All cylinders running evenly though as exhaust manifolds are showing near identical temperatures!
The fork oil seals are weeping a bit, and the dust boots look pretty perished.

My plan of action:
Spark plugs,
Oil + filter,
Drain off all the old fuel and run through some new stuff with a strong helping of redex. (if I can get the carb bowls off without splitting the carbs apart I'll do that too),
Fork oil seals to be replaced.

Anything else you lot can recommend I look at doing other than giving it a good hoon on some of the nice country roads around my house?

Cheers in advance!

Nick
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: bike Reply with quote

a full deep service as 9 years is a long time.

The engine runs so any stuck valve damage is done, but it runs ok??

a manual and you know of cmsnl which can only help.

valve working clearance check and adjust if needed, research how to do that, RESEARCH HOW TO DO THAT!!!

To clean the carbs, start at the fuel filler cap.

How are stuff like tyres and chain??

Brakes will need a good service at least, maybe the calipers are stuck and the pistons badly stuck and corroded.

Pads friction material lifting off corroded steel back plates??

dead battery ( you replaced that?? ).

research researc research, penetrent penetrent penetrent and take your time. dont break stuff.

if your not sure, ask!
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kgm
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above really. No chance I'd be riding on 9 year old tyres, even if they look ok the rubber won't be the same.

Any rubber bits could potentially have degraded - including brake seals, check seals around gear shifter, etc just in case.

Since the fork seals need done I'd be giving the head bearings a grease, have a look at the swing arm too. Check the rest shock isn't leaking. I'd probably do new brake fluid and coolant too just to be thorough, neither is difficult.
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nick307
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers bikenut!

Engine runs fine once its warmed up. No knocking / rattling noises or anything I'd be too suspicious of (none whilst it's cold too, it just bogs down badly under any throttle). I'll give it a poke with a stethescope this evening to try and listen out for anything else that might not be sounding too good.

Haynes manual is in my "to buy" list, but I've found a pretty darn thorough manual online that seems to cover just about everything! CMSNL doesn't seem to have the 650s on there? I might just be looking in the wrong place!

Valve clearance is a good point! Research will be done!!!

Start at the filler cap and work my way down to the pistons? Makes sense.

Tyres I kinda think are newer than everything else. They feel grippy against my hands, no signs of cracking or perishing anywhere, and they have plenty of the little molding tags around still; loads of tread left too. Chain I'll give a proper going over, but needs tightening and some fresh lube.

Brakes feel fine (again not really had a good look yet), but I'll get them off and have a good look for corrosion.

Battery has been fine in the day or so I've had it. Kicks the starter happily enough and no warnings come up on the clocks (dunno if any would. Too used to cars...)

I've got a whole draw full of different flavors of penetrating oils, and I intend to get through most of them!!!

Thanks again!!!

Nick
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Robby
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full service.
New tyres. Old tyres can be deceptive. Feel absolutely fine in the dry, then suddenly let go in the wet.
Full brake service.

Then ride it and find out what else needs doing. Things I would expect to fix:
- Headstock bearings. Quite likely the grease has gone hard and rust has crept in. Might get away with a re-grease, but probably time to replace them.
- Swingarm bearings. Re-grease.
- Suspension linkage. Re-grease.
- Fork seals. They might recovered after a ride, but I would expect to need to sort them.
- Battery. I'm surprised it works at all if it is 10 years old.
- Rear shock. Seals can perish after a decade sitting still. It will either fail in 100 miles, or keep working for years.

Don't bother with redex. Fresh petrol is a good cleaner on its own. If fresh fuel doesn't sort it, the carbs need to be stripped and cleaned.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

New tyres definitely! As said above, grip levels can be lower even if the tyres look and feel sound. For something so critical, I'd swallow the cost and change them. On my ER5, the tyres appeared fine (with loads of tread) and were only 6 years old when I got the bike, but after a short ride (10 miles or something) huge cracks opened up all around the rim - scary! Glad I was on a slow speed ride not bombing around the motorway!
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doggone
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will depend how it was stored, in a dry, darkish shed with reasonably stable temperatures even the tyres might be just fine.
Plenty of vehicles are running round on tyres older than that.

On the other hand with a bike any unexpected failure is likely to be more dangerous so changing them is sensible.
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St George
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got mine out of the shed since being put away in 2005, tyres looked OK. After giving them a good bath I started to notice small cracks, the more I looked the more I found, hence new Dunlops. Can't start falling off at my age.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 08 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Second binning the rubber, even if dont look cracked, once you get in the wet they just wont grip at all.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 09 Mar 2019    Post subject: bike Reply with quote

tyres can develpoe things like flat spots etc......makes sence to replace them as they are safety critical, your life depends on them....

charging system works all ok?s works all ok??
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nick307
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 11 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the advice so far!

Tyres are getting higher and higher on my priorities list!!! Any objections to a mid range tyre like the Michelin Pilot Power?

After the weekend's tinkering, I have now:
Changed spark plugs,
Changed oil and filter,
Basic carb clean (carbs off, bowls off, old fuel all over the garage floor, everything hosed down with cleaner),
As much old fuel as I could get out all poured into the old 125 (it actually looked alright), and a full tank of BP's finest go faster juice.

It starts up much quicker and runs better than it did, however it's also only running on 3 cylinders now (was definitely running on 4 before)... 3 are hot and one is stone cold. I've used a spark tester in the HT lead and it was still sparking over the biggest gap my tester goes to so I don't think the leads of coils are the issue. Could potentially be that one of the new spark plugs died in the mail as they were wrapped up fairly poorly, so I'm going to swap 1 and 4 (its 1 that doesn't fire any more) when I next get time and see if 1 starts to run again. Could also be that I ballsed up and blocked the carb jets when I was cleaning them...

Other than that, I've checked the brakes, brake lines, fluid, disks, and pads, and they all seem in good shape, although I might be tempted if HEL do a big discount weekend any time soon, and new pads some time soon too probably isn't the worst idea ever. As for the bearings and linkages mentioned above, they all feel fine at the moment. No grinding / clunking and no stiff spots at all, but checking and renewing the grease is also on my do to list.

Thanks again for all the good advice!!!
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nick307
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's still not running right... last night I swapped spark plugs 1 and 4, but cylinder 1 is still not burning, and after a fair run it was still showing hardly warmer than ambient temperature on the thermal camera. I've also checked back through the old photos and I was wrong about it ever managing to run on 4 when I first got it, so it's sounding more and more like a blocked carb!

Que weekend plan:
Carbs off tonight after work, drain them out and give them a quick spray down with cleaner / degreaser, pack them up and head to the girlfriends work and make use of the fact that she works in a lab and blast all of the jets in a proper sonicator bath. Rebuild and reinstall carbs.

It's a stock exhaust and airbox, which means I should be aiming for stock settings on the pilot adjuster screws right? Somewhere between 2 and 1 7/8th turns.

Any other tips for a carb rebuild before I go and bugger it all up?

Cheers
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Robby
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a can of carb cleaner and clean them out.

Cylinder no.1 sits lowest when the bike is on the side stand, so that carb will have the most fuel in it to evaporate and turn into varnish.
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ocatoro
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

it rode 20 miles 3 months ago... surely most of this was sorted for that ride, plus the mot?
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nick307
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 18 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, put my name down on the list of people who's bikes ran like crap and all the issues were fixed by giving the carbs a good thorough clean!

Burning on all 4 now, although 3 is slightly hotter so might need a little bit of tweaking to get the idle mixtures just right.

I'm not completely convinced that the ultrasonic wash did a huge amount, but a big bottle of pure ish hexane did a great job of eating any residues the bath didn't knock off, so I'd highly recommend some of that or at least a cleaner / degreaser that contains it!

On a positive note, the overflow system definitely works!!! One of the inlet valves on 1 or 2 must have jammed open as fuel was pouring out of their joint overflow pipe when I first got the bike running after getting the carbs back on. Gave the bike a good shake and it stopped making a mess on the floor.

Do any of you have any advice on pillion handles? My bike just has the one bar behind the pillion seat, which is apparently not too comfy to hold onto, and no strap between the front and rear seats to hold onto either. My chief pillion is more used to a deauville with the full compliment of panniers and top box so isn't overly impressed by the lack of armchairyness...

Thanks for all the advice so far guys!
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 18 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

nick307 wrote:
Do any of you have any advice on pillion handles?

Maybe https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/73914?
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nick307
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 18 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


The look of death I got when I suggested those...
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 18 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The look of death I got when I suggested those...

Yeah but you didn't say it was for the bike - she thought it was bedroom gear..
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nick307
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 29 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put a new set of BT-023s on last Friday and the guy at the garage told me 3 things.

1 - The bike was on the original tyres from 2005 (yikes!!!)

2 - It's been lowered (dog bones ordered to put the back up to the right height). Biiiiig chicken strips still and I'm told I was pretty close to grinding my pegs.

3 - The exhaust has a crack in it between the collector and the mid pipe.

Standard bandit crappy joint. Did about 200 miles over the weekend (oh god it was glorious) and it got progressively more and more farty and burbly. Turns out when he said a crack he meant the entire thing was snapped off... I've cleaned it up as well as I can and I'm going to try my luck with some Holts repair kits as they've worked well for me in the past. Longer term I think I'll have to ask work if I can come in over a weekend and use the nice TIG gear and just weld a new pipe in between the two nice not rusty bits and cut out all of the rusty crud. Perks of working at the steelworks!

I did have a look at new full systems though, but on top of the cost of the exhaust it'd be another £200 on insurance because I'm young and immature and a loud exhaust will definitely make me crash into things.

On the lowering side of things, have any of you had experience with lowering or un-lowering forks?
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