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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Bloody Sunday Reply with quote

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6807811/One-17-British-Army-veterans-face-Bloody-Sunday-charges.html

Fury as a British Army veteran WILL be charged over Bloody Sunday: Ex-soldier faces trial accused of two murders in 1972 shootings - but 16 of his comrades will NOT be prosecuted


What do you think? Should they be prosecuted?

Personally I'd say yes provided they have a good look at the likes of St. Gerry Adams (and Paddy, but he's already deaded)
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

You put a soldier in a policing role and you are going to have mistakes/accidents call it what you will.

How many of those troops thought they were going to be attacked and killed like the 2 squaddies caught at that IRA funeral and opened fire because they felt threatened.

An inquest years later cannot show the feelings and fears of what was going on at the time. It's easy to blame the soldiers but if the rioters hadn't been there they wouldn't have got shot.

My stepfather was over there as a Major in the Royal engineers supervising the defensive works around police stations and other IRA targets. His view was all the violence could have been stopped in a week. They knew every person in the IRA, where they were and could have 'removed' them easily but Politics.

He hated politicians. Laughing
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a little confusing because to get full information (Saville Report??) politicians had to put laws into place which protected soldiers from future prosecutions. I believe that's why the 16 will not be tried.
What confuses me is why they're going after that one person? Surely they had protections too?

I see the whole thing as nothing but political masturbation. 'You shake yours, we shake ours' and all the while those underneath politicians suffer the consequences - all sides suffer but politicians get a pat on the back.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
How many of those troops thought they were going to be attacked and killed like the 2 squaddies caught at that IRA funeral and opened fire because they felt threatened.

That's pretty disingenuous because that funeral took place 16 years after Bloody Sunday. Actually, it would be closer to say that those squaddies were murdered as an ultimate consequence of whatever happened on Bloody Sunday; it certainly massively increased antipathy towards the troops, and I think had that funeral happened beforehand, that lynching would be very unlikely to have happened.
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Minty
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about Bloody Sunday but I know a fair bit about the Ballymurphy Massacre that happened months before but without the glare of cameras and journalists and widely to be believed, carried out by the same troops and would wonder how threatened British Army snipers felt whilst stationed on the roof of some unfinished flats. Threatened enough to shoot dead a priest reading the last rites to another civilian picked off I guess.

It was murder but I don't blame the troops as they were following orders. Bring the officers that gave the commands to trial, not the soldiers.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Sorry we are not currently accepting comments on this article."

Says it all. Rolling Eyes

There's been talk recently about how the army could be called on to help with all the stabby stabby knife crimes that are happening right now so the timing of the Bloody Sunday prosecutions will have a big effect on what soldiers will be willing to do if they are asked to help police the streets.

Then we've got the Brexit civil unrest that might or might not happen.

I strongly believe that Solider F should not be prosecuted. If anyone is to blame then it's someone higher up the chain of command. Prosecuting members of the armed forces but not terrorists from the IRA makes a mockery of the so called justice system.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minty wrote:
I don't blame the troops as they were following orders.


That's the Nuremberg defense argument though.
To me the whole thing smacks of appeasement. Seems like the IRA are starting to get a bit feisty again (blame it on BREXIT), and their prime minister won't do anything about it because he looks like Dale Winton.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Prosecuting members of the armed forces but not terrorists from the IRA makes a mockery of the so called justice system.


Thumbs Up So much this.

Why do the Feinian shits get a free pass but not the Army? Fucking ridiculous.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely agree.

A few years ago I remember the Queen visiting Ireland, and the news articles were all about Martin McGuinness 'lowering' himself to shake hands with her. Confused
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

'letters of comfort' required for our soldiers surely?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A para with a loaded rifle is a deadly weapon.

Someone put that deadly weapon in a crowded street and pointed it down range.

If you use an elitew infantry unit for a policing situation, people will be shot. Their response to threat is not the same as a policeman. Nor should it be.

In the interests of truth and reconcilliation, I wouldn't necessarily object to a trial if it was understood that in the event of a guilty verdict, the squaddie would be released to go about his business in the same way all the convicted IRA terrorists have been.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
A few years ago I remember the Queen visiting Ireland, and the news articles were all about Martin McGuinness 'lowering' himself to shake hands with her

I don't remember it that way at all; and a quick google doesn't give any indication that my memory is wrong.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 14 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because they say there weren't any IRA present and no shots were fired from the crowd doesn't mean that there weren't. We all know how honest the IRA are and the protesters.

We were at war with the IRA and there supporters. The streets were the battle field.

Looks like they are starting the war again.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed ^^

The recent letter bombs are an obvious sign that something's rumbling and about to get worse - the letter bombs being warning shots.
I expect full-on terrorism in England during and after any trials of soldiers.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freddyfruitbat wrote:
bhinso wrote:
A few years ago I remember the Queen visiting Ireland, and the news articles were all about Martin McGuinness 'lowering' himself to shake hands with her

I don't remember it that way at all; and a quick google doesn't give any indication that my memory is wrong.


Fair point, although what I found on google was written after the event. I just seem to remember that in the build-up to it, there were a lot of Republicans/ex-IRA who were furious about it.

And agree with Skudd, like I said the IRA are starting to get a bit feisty again. Our response seems to be to identify one single scapegoat and offer them as a lamb to the IRA appeasement slaughter.


Last edited by bhinso on 15:49 - 15 Mar 2019; edited 1 time in total
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes me wonder why people join the army at all now? God forbid we ever have to get involved in any ground confrontations. Soldiers will be afraid to fight in case they get prosecuted.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
Makes me wonder why people join the army at all now?


They don't, the Army (particularly tooth arms) are chronically short manned with dogshit retention rates.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The government has to keep cutting the authorised size of the Army because they can't fill the places.

It would be madness to join the Army where you must follow orders, but can be prosecuted for following the same orders.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 15 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless the Army you join is the Irish Republican Army.

Then you can end up in Politics Thumbs Up
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope this link works, I'm a bit too gammon to do this stuff reliably.

Andrew Neil really going to town. I learnt a lot:

90% of killings in The Troubles were carried out by terrorists
IRA was killing before the British army
As part of the peace process, IRA veterans were pardonned and given "Letters of comfort" (?). No prosecutions.

Face it, everyone is shitting themselves about the IRA coming back.


https://www.facebook.com/War1982/videos/941317602695184/?t=0
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ I'm old enough to remember the killings, the bombings and outright terror and anger was only too real. I also remember how 'peace' was gained and I totally get how someone at some point has to forgive, pardon etc. From that point everyone settles down and calls peace.
For me it's this single soldier they're going to haul through the courts. I want to know why.

I do sense some troubling times ahead in the UK..
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
For me it's this single soldier they're going to haul through the courts. I want to know why


Simple. They're shit scared of the IRA and it's an appeasment gesture to try and stop them bombing again.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 16 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bastards. So obviously there's far more to things than a few random letter bombs - government are obviously in talks with the IRA and are failing (like they always do). Those letter bombs being something along the lines of "we're serious".

The soldier might have the full backing of the best barristers and be having all his fees paid etc but he's still a human and a soldier who followed orders.
I want his superiors tried too if the soldier is being dragged through this. That will never happen though because they're cowardly bastards who still count soldiers as nothing more than a number they can sacrifice. Seems nothing's changed since WW1 and the atrocities which took place..

The more I think about this and the leave the EU thing - the bombings and joining Europe basically happened around the same times? It's as if everything the British government has done to hide, dodge, delay, bribe, lie is now coming back to bite their arses hard and deep. This year will not be fun.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 01:52 - 17 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

My ex is from Northern Ireland, she says we only know a fraction of the story in England. In Northern Ireland, the Brexit vote was split mainly between Protestant and Catholics, and with all the 'hard border' talks and the general sense of once again being governed by a set of clueless westminster elites, a lot of people over there are talking as if the troubles are going to return.

I think it's fair to say there are real fears about bad things restarting, and this soldier F narrative is an appeasement tactic aimed directly at those who will use any excuse to get bomby again.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 17 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
My ex is from Northern Ireland, she says we only know a fraction of the story in England. In Northern Ireland, the Brexit vote was split mainly between Protestant and Catholics, and with all the 'hard border' talks and the general sense of once again being governed by a set of clueless westminster elites, a lot of people over there are talking as if the troubles are going to return.

I think it's fair to say there are real fears about bad things restarting, and this soldier F narrative is an appeasement tactic aimed directly at those who will use any excuse to get bomby again.


When I do research I stay away from easy simpler articles and look for the actual sources or most complete stories. Same goes with the news. I never read/view British media (OK yes Metro online when wanting a laugh) and when you source news information beyond Europe and the USA it's quite shocking. For all my school life I was told Russia bad and cruel and yet RT Media actually give a far more accurate and concise account of what's truly happening in wars around the world.
For people in Ireland it must be horrific. Ireland is literally where everything clashes.
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