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VFR800 commuter braking dilemma VTR fork swap - Stinkwheel?

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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 24 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It amazes me that you would rather change the front end than change the brake fluid.
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ADSrox0r
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Joined: 23 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 24 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are other benefits in handling to changing the front end. I would never do it solely for de-linking, it's a combo 'upgrade' if you can be arsed.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 24 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
It amazes me that you would rather change the front end than change the brake fluid.


It's a massive faff on the linked braking systems. If I'm going to do all that work, I might as well switch to an easy two line four pot caliper combo.

Also, I've never liked sliding calipers, and I think this bike deserves better. I get the added bonus of getting rebound damping adjustment on the forks too.
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stinkwheel
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 24 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are pretty stiff forks mind.
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ADSrox0r
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

It's a massive faff


Any of my other bikes its a 10-15 minute silly job. On the VFR....it's, "ah fuck it, I'll do it some other time" Which is why I say I think Honda realised they'd made a critical system less likely to be regularly serviced.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 10:10 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
They are pretty stiff forks mind.


The VTR items? Well the bike is a good 20kg heavier, so I think that'll be OK!! Smile
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Robby
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would still go down the route of a really thorough brake service first. It may be a pain in the arse, but it needs doing. I also hadn't realised they were sliding calipers, which means even more moving parts to clean, sand, and regrease.

Filling and bleeding may be a tricky and time consuming process, but you can still rely on my simple and slow method. Put it all together with the pistons pushed in, fill the master cylinders, and just keep pumping the brake until the brakes firm up. Then open up the bleed nipples to get out the tiny bit of air sat underneath them. Just make sure that the master cylinder is higher than the caliper it is working on - for rear calipers this often means taking the caliper off the bike and letting it sit on the floor with a bit of wood between the pistons.

Or bring it to me and I'll do it. I find brake jobs oddly satisfying.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 11:01 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
I would still go down the route of a really thorough brake service first. It may be a pain in the arse, but it needs doing. I also hadn't realised they were sliding calipers, which means even more moving parts to clean, sand, and regrease.

Filling and bleeding may be a tricky and time consuming process, but you can still rely on my simple and slow method. Put it all together with the pistons pushed in, fill the master cylinders, and just keep pumping the brake until the brakes firm up. Then open up the bleed nipples to get out the tiny bit of air sat underneath them. Just make sure that the master cylinder is higher than the caliper it is working on - for rear calipers this often means taking the caliper off the bike and letting it sit on the floor with a bit of wood between the pistons.

Or bring it to me and I'll do it. I find brake jobs oddly satisfying.


I'm not sure you understand how the linked stuff makes all this so much harder.... It's not easy to do. There are tonnes of horizontal lines that are difficult to bleed and I'm told it's a whole day job to replace the fluid due to the bleed procedure.

Something I found after a quick google:

Quote:
The valves mounted on the forks (delay valve and secondary master cyl) are part of the rear fluid circuit and often need a bit more effort to bleed, plus you must bleed in this sequence, (using the rear pedal of course):1) Right side front caliper centre nipple2) Left side front caliper centre nipple3) Rear caliper centre nipple4) Rear caliper outer nipple (even though the outer pistons are operated from the front left brake caliper! [this can be confusing!])Be prepared to persevere a bit with the last stage cos you have to dislodge and move any air in those valves all the way from the fork legs to the rear caliper, passing thru the PCV en route.When you're satisfied the first three stages are air free, if you still have a soft rear pedal continue with the last stage 'til it comes good.(All this assumes you have retained linked brakes).Hope this helps.

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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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kgm
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Joined: 04 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've yet the do mine. Is it really that bad even with a vacuum bleeder?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgm wrote:
I've yet the do mine. Is it really that bad even with a vacuum bleeder?


My vacuum bleeder is good, but it ain't perfect. The best results I've had have been on my track bike with brand new Venhill lines, it's the first time I've ever bled up a brake system pretty much immediately. I normally have to do ten rounds of normal bleeding, followed by a reverse vacuum bleed and then tying the lever back to the bar etc.

With lots of delay valves, one way valves, cross overs, solid lines, unions going from the front of the bike to the back... I don't relish that task.

I honestly think the fork/caliper swap will result in a better bike. You guys know I'm not one for hybrid bikes, but I think this one makes sense.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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kgm
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Joined: 04 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't seem to find this secondary master cylinder on my bike, or in the parts diagrams. I guess the crossrunner is set up a little different, just the usual ones at the front and rear, nothing near the fork leg.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 25 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgm wrote:
I can't seem to find this secondary master cylinder on my bike, or in the parts diagrams. I guess the crossrunner is set up a little different, just the usual ones at the front and rear, nothing near the fork leg.


Mine is mounted on the left fork leg... Not all Honda CBS bikes have this it seems.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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Robby
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 28 Mar 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bleed process will take a while if you properly clean the calipers, but it may not be as painful as it looks, particularly if you're careful about stoppering the lines to prevent fluid leakage and refill the calipers with fluid prior to fitting.

Doing a fluid change doesn't require getting air in the system at all. Just vacuum out the master cylinders, fill with fresh fluid, and pump it through.
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