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Pete.
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PostPosted: 07:01 - 12 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
It took the biggest air gun and a ground down torx hammered in to get most of them out, the others were a smaller air gun. They weren't moving Laughing I didn't touch before hand, I was able to use a 3ft extension, stand on it and not move it at all, at which point I stopped and called Pete.


A windy gun in my experience sn't the appropriate tool to start with and neither is an allen socket and breaker bar, an impact driver is.


The 'mechanic' who had changed the discs the first time put the bolts in with a rattle gun and so much high strength threadlock it had migrated up the bolt and locked the shoulder to the disc as well as the thread in the hole. Added to that they had chewed up some of the hex's trying to remove the bolts later. I had to put a short extension in a 1/2" drive socketed allen key to shock all of them before any of them would move. After that some came out with a Hitachi battery impact, the rest I used a heavier mains powered one. The chewed up head ones I had to swap the allen for a torx.

Anyway, they all came out where the fitter could not move a single one, and that's what counts. I have a impact driver but I haven't used it in probably 15 years.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 12 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
I have a impact driver but I haven't used it in probably 15 years.


On things like this give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 12 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had some time yesterday to strip the bodywork off.
One of the problems with ER6's is they vibrate a lot, its so bad that is wears out the bodywork tabs so that the body work resonates loudly. There was even a recall on the 2006-7 models for foam pads to be fitted between body panels so stop them rattling around.

As an example of how bad the vibration is on mine the two upper headlight mounts actually vibrated through and are held in place with zip ties.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20190711_145035.jpg

This panel will be replaced with a new one to be ordered today along with a few other things, air filter, front sprocket washer and fork seals. One of the best things about this bike is the genuine parts are relatively cheap so this little lot only comes to £230.

I've always liked the looks of the ER6 without any bodywork, looks to me a bit like a flat tracker.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20190711-wa0015.jpeg
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 18 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had some more time yesterday so got the rear wheel back in. Unfortuantely the chain adjusters I bought from Ebay are wrong so I will need to get another set.

The fitting of the rear wheel is terrible on these. The axle goes in from the right through a brake plate into the wheel which is a bit of a night mare to line up. Most bikes that use this design have the axle go in from the |left to support he wheel while fitting the brake plate.

The swingarm pivot bolt undoes ok and rotates freely but won't come out so it most be seized to the inner bearing races which make removal extremely hard. I'll give it a try with an air hammer but I don't hold much hope, the only other option is to cut off the swingarm and replace it which will be a massive job although they are at least cheap to replace. If theres no play in the bearing I may just leave it for another year.

After some work I managed to get the front sprocket off. Kawasaki tighten these to about 130ft/lbs which is just silly. The design means they tend to seize in place so Breaker bar between swingarm and rear wheel to stop it rotating and a 3 foot breaker bar soon sorted it. The windy gun wouldn't move it so this means I needs to upgrade my Compressor.

I recently bought a Clarke VE15C150 vertical compressor which at 14cfm should run just about anything I want. It has a 3/4 outlet but I fitted a 3/8ths regulator (I had one from my old compressor) which has restricted its flow rate. I need to upgrade to a 1/2 regulator and hose, no point going any bigger due to the fitting being the same size but this will increase flow rate considerably and give more power to the windy gun and other tools.
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Robby
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 30 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you drill the damper rods for the PD valves, I recommend using a step drill. Neater, rounder holes.
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There is a gap of 211 days between these two posts...

sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

So just started working on this again. Had the rear wheel out and applied Dinitrol inside the swingarm which has a lot of corrosion in it. The swingarm fills with water on the right hand side in the rain and the drain holes in the adjusters are so small the water can't drain back out again.
The drain holes I have enlarged with an angle grinder, its not a stressed member so other than allowing water to drain won't have any adverse effect.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

This shows the standard chain adjuster which plugs the end of the swingarm. As you can see once clamped up the drain hole is less than 0.5mm so nothing drains out.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200220-wa0006.jpeg

So the answer to this is to take a thin grinding disk and enlarge the cutout.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200220-wa0008.jpeg

You will get some water thrown up that'll enter the hole but at least it can drain out now whereas previously you adjusted the chain and got a wet hand.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The swingarm was full of corrosion so an easy way of sorting this was to spray it full of Dinitrol. This is useful stuff, it neutralises corrosion and leaves a waxy layer that further protects the metal work.

Dinitrol comes in a large can and you use an air fed application gun to apply it. The gun has a long tube with a 5 way nozzle so it sprays forward and sideways coating everything.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_083529.jpg

The gun also atomises the Dinitrol so even if it doesn't directly hit a section it still gets a good coating. as it never truely sets it creeps and has a degree of self repairing if scratched or damaged.

One downside is the Dinitrol needs to be warm to atomise, people often heat it up in a bucket of hot water but if its too warm it flows too easily so leaves too thin a coat on whatever you spray it on.

The inside of the swingarm looks like this now

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_083644.jpg

As you can see everything is well coated but there is pooling at the bottom of the swingarm which isn't perfect but is a limitation of the product.

This is horribly messy stuff, you really don't want to get it on a garage floor or over clothing. Its slippery, waxy and once set is a nightmare to clean up but it really does work.

There are bikes like the Z900 where the front cradle rots out, drill a drain hole and spray full of Dinitrol and you will never have this problem.
As more retro style bikes such as Triumphs use steel cradle frames there will be more big bikes in need of this type of treatment, it also works on Steel framed push bikes.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 years floating in rusty water will even take it's toll on Aluminium adjuster blocks.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_133755.jpg

A quick clean up with an angle grinder poly paint pad and you end up with an adjuster you cn read the numbers and lines on.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_133950.jpg
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the most useful tools when working on a bike like this is an Angle grinder with a poly pad on it.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_151851.jpg

Used lightly it can take off corrosion and polish the base metal while removing very little of the good.

For eaxmple the rear axle on this was heavily corroded, so bad I damaged the threads while removing it and had to get a second hand one which wasn't much better but at least still had the threads intact.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_151930.jpg

Now this bike is relatively young at 10 years old but does have some 95k on it but many bikes that people work on will be older and in worse condition but the grinder with poly pad in a matter of minutes makes the axle look like this

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200227_153153.jpg

Its not perfect but oh so much better than it was and now goes through the wheel smoothly and will be even better once greased.

A lot of people use copper grease on axles which is something I don't recommend. Use a general purpose or Castrol LM grease on the actual axle, only use copper grease on the threaded part.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 10 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Managed to get a bit of time to work on it so front end is now off and the original ball bearing head races need to come out.
I like ball bearings, they are simple, relatively self adjusting and have low drag compared to taper roller bearings due to less surface area touching the metal races but they are more expensive than a set of tapers which only cost £30.

most modern bikes above 500cc have a problem with the head races, they are sunk into the headstock with no easy way to knock them out. These are quite possibly the worst I have seen.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200409-wa0011.jpeg

Some bikes have a tiny notch in the headstock so you can use a drift but even this is difficult.
Since I start welding and fabricating I tend to keep some mild steel about and I have some 10mm pipe which I sharpened to a point and it just about fitted in the notch and with the help of a mini Mjólnir hammer the races came out wrecking the drift in the process.


Most bikes have different size races with the small one at the top and a big one at the bottom. As most of the force in use goes through the bottom this makes sense but does mean the top bearing is the one that generally wears the most. On the ER6 the bearings are the same size which you can see from the diameter of the steering stem.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200409_154138.jpg

As a result the head races on this have lasted 10 years and 95000miles.

A problem I hadn't considered is my head race press only has one size of each bearing drift so there was a fair amount of messing around using the old races to press the new ones into place. Time to buy a spare set of bearing drifts.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 10 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember that recessed race from my KLE500. Mr Kawasaki does like a laugh.

In the manual you're supposed to use this oddball expanding slidehammer thing to get them out.

I used the welder trick in the end.
____________________
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 10 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I remember that recessed race from my KLE500. Mr Kawasaki does like a laugh.

In the manual you're supposed to use this oddball expanding slidehammer thing to get them out.


I actually have an expanding remover tool in a couple of different sizes, none fit.

stinkwheel wrote:
I used the welder trick in the end.


That was going to be the last resort.

Thought I'd take a few photos of some of the stuff to be fitted.

New fork tops with Preload adjusters. As you can see they have a bit more height so the spring spacer will need cutting down to maintain the same overall height. Set them at about 40% preload and measure so you can take away as well as add preload.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/fork_tops.jpg

The new spring is the one on top which like the original is progressive but is progressive over most of its length not just at the end of its travel.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/fork_springs.jpg

This is the separated spring and damper

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/fork_bits.jpg

which gets assembled like this.
Because of the addition of the PD valve again some more height will need taking off the spring spacer tube.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/damper_assy.jpg
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 10 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bless you, sir, for reminding me of the Dinitrol! Working on the old DT this week I noticed a partly enclosed bit of the swing arm practically glowing orange with corrosion Sad Then I remember hearing something about how to deal with it...

Anyhoo, excellent timing Thumbs Up

Regarding steering races, this is what I use on MTBs:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JMP-steering-head-bearing-removal-tool-30mm-50mm-headstock-race-cup-remover/282381874641

Would that work?
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 10 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Would that work?


That's what I have several sizes of and they do work well on older bikes it's just these modern ones are a bit of a nightmare.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 10 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a modified for PD Valves vs the original damper rod.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200410_190255.jpg

Drilled out with a stepper bit as per Robby's suggestion.

It's not quite to the instructions as I couldn't be bothered to weld up the holes that were already there but it should be fine.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 12 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

A problem area on the ER6 is where the grab handles bolt to the frame, the front mounts can crack. If you fit a rack they will crack and as this bike has had a rack since day one they have both cracked and broken off.

This is the right hand side

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200412_131407.jpg

and this the left

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200412_131709.jpg

Luckily the the rack was still bolted in place with the broken bits still attached so out with the mig welder and weld them back in place. My welding is hardly great but the job is done and everything is secure again. They will break again but next time I will weld in some 4mm plate with a hole drilled and threaded.

Right repair

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200412-wa0003.jpeg

Left repair

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200412_133844.jpg
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Eddie Hitler
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 14:40 - 14 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Satisfying seeing a well used bike getting some well earned attention.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple of asides.
Stainless bolts can seize in mild steel. Had this one seize in the Givi rack so a piece of plate welded to it made it a lot easier to remove.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200412-wa0005.jpeg

These calipers have a problem with the pad pin seizing in place. The easiest way around this is to drill a hole in the dimple before they seize so you can just knock them out with a punch.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200415_104256.jpg

these calipers are used on a lot of bikes including the SV650.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's job is to clean up the front calipers and bits. These are the original calipers with the original pistons and I think the original seals as well. Pretty sure the seals are original as I keep thinking I need to replace them and I'm finally doing it.

The encrusted crud and corrosion is pretty solid so the easiest way to clean it off is with a Dremel with a wire brush attachment. Wear eye protection while doing this, sharp bits of crap can destroy your eyes.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200415_105432.jpg

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200415_105410.jpg

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200415_105342.jpg
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 15 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's still some discolouration from use and the wire brush as well as pitting on the edges but the pitting is the pad side of the fluid seal so it doesn't bother me or affect the brake performance, at least the crud is gone I could change the pistons as well as the seals but at £20 each it's a bit pricey at the moment, I might replace them at the end of next winter.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/20200415_121309.jpg
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 24 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spent the last couple of days cleaning the bike and today I removed the left hand footrest hanger which instantly showed me a serious problem. I never did get around to removing the swingarm as the pivot bolt is seized, if I had I would have found this problem before.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200424-wa0002.jpeg

And a close up of the hole.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img-20200424-wa0000.jpeg

So now the swingarm definitely needs removal so I can decide whether to weld in a new section or to source a 2nd hand swingarm.

I'm very surprised that this has happened on an 11 year old Japanese bike, it's just not the sort of thing you expect. I'm willing to bet the bottom will be rotted as well so this could be quite a lot of metal needing replacement. On the plus side it's only a cross piece so a welded repair should be possible without compromising strength. Its a bit of an odd position for it to happen in, the rear wheel doesn't throw crap into this position and the silencer is directly underneath it so this may relate to the problem where the swingarm fills with water.

I've now beaten the pivot bolt into submission so have a bit of movement on it so hopefully it will come out. Now I need to remove and invert the foot rests so it can sit on a set of axle stands while the rear end is pulled out.
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garth
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 24 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy fuck

Be interested to see the other side that's also been shotblasted with road grit for 90k is like for comparison, assuming same gauge
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 24 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feck indeed! And there's me worrying about the tiny bit of corrosion I found the other day Shocked

Seem to be a goodly amount of swing arms on the FleaBay, ~£50.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 24 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can i suggest you modify the next design iteration with a highly advanced feature people sometimes use on enclosed voids and water traps in oxidisable metal which are exposed to the elements called a "hole"?

From the cracks at the far side, it almost looks like it's burst. Frost damage? You get similar damage to steel farm gates where people have lost the top-cap. They fill with rainwater, then freeze.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 339 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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