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Extinction Rebellion or how not to win an argument

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 17 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Easy-X wrote:


I feel a lot better about my stage 1 tune now. Maybe, I can get "antidisestablishmentarianism" etched on the de-cat exhaust Smile



So, you are against the separation of the church and the state?


Dammit, that was the wrong word Smile Maybe "not for rectal use" instead Laughing Stickers can fall off.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 17 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:

So, you are against the separation of the church and the state?


How about separation of the state from the people, which is effectively what we've got now.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 05:13 - 13 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Climate Change. Very important. (stop tittering at the back!)

Here's an interesting chart:

Carbon footprint of travel per kilometre (2018)

tl;dr air travel and BMWs bad, m'kay, so let's not get started on taking a private plane to a climate conference and then being ferried about in a big limo. Oh the horror!

But let's say you work in the city. Cycling to the station and getting the train in is great but only marginally better than driving in with an EV. Huh, that can't be right Thinking How about ride share? Take a mate to work in a car and you'd be better off than taking the bus but 2 up on a motorcycle? Actually better for the environment than a Tesla. Strange no one ever mentions that...
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:14 - 20 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
A “silent majority” of car companies is concerned that electric vehicles will not alone be able to end reliance on fossil fuels, according to a senior Toyota executive.

Quote:
Akio Toyoda, the company's president and grandson of its founder Kiichiro Toyoda, said that many concerned senior figures are reluctant to say what they really think because of the pressure to go green.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 20 Dec 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
~50% of the world population relies on fossil fuels to survive i.e. fertiliser derived from gas. Any volunteers for the disintegration chambers?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
~50% of the world population relies on fossil fuels to survive i.e. fertiliser derived from gas. Any volunteers for the disintegration chambers?


In a similar vein:

This House Believes Wokeness Has Gone Too Far - Oxford Union Debate

tl;dr Konstantin Kisin goes with "Climate Change is a problem but..."

The key point revolves around (and I've mentioned this before) poor people don't care about Climate Change. Or, more accurately, poor people can't care about Climate Change.

Is the above a true statement or does anyone have a convincing argument against?

I can only imagine some edge case of a small tribe living in the jungle with the overly romanticised "in harmony with nature" which translates to "you could die at any moment" Sad
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
climate change is Pseudoscience.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 14 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well yes, everyone knows that but "the great and the good" like to cultivate an image of hand-wringing about the plight of the poor.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
to v or not to v wrote:
climate change is Pseudoscience.


Nothing could be further from the truth. The data is solid.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
to v or not to v wrote:
climate change is Pseudoscience.


Nothing could be further from the truth. The data is solid.

But are the conclusions?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 00:51 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Islander wrote:


Nothing could be further from the truth. The data is solid.

But are the conclusions?


The conclusions are led by the data.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:15 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander, you're a smart guy, are you able to refute my statement?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Islander, you're a smart guy, are you able to refute my statement?


Which one?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
More the case that poor people can't afford to care.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Which one?


"...poor people don't care about Climate Change."
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Islander
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Islander wrote:
Which one?


"...poor people don't care about Climate Change."


I'm not sure there's even any data on that. If you want an opinion then I'd say that some do, probably a majority, and some don't. They'll be the worst affected of course so they really should care.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Worst affected by authoritarian imposition of unaffordable expense such as banning ICE cars and bikes.

It won't matter though as most places will be under defacto climate lockdowns which is what the 15 minute city impositions are about.
You will have to apply to authorities to travel anywhere.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
Worst affected by authoritarian imposition of unaffordable expense such as banning ICE cars and bikes.

It won't matter though as most places will be under defacto climate lockdowns which is what the 15 minute city impositions are about.
You will have to apply to authorities to travel anywhere.


Nope. Worst affected by climate change.

Nothing to do with conspiracy theory driven paranoid rantings at all. Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:15 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
Worst affected by authoritarian imposition of unaffordable expense such as banning ICE cars and bikes.

It won't matter though as most places will be under defacto climate lockdowns which is what the 15 minute city impositions are about.
You will have to apply to authorities to travel anywhere.


Tin foil hat at the ready.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Easy-X wrote:


"...poor people don't care about Climate Change."


I'm not sure there's even any data on that. If you want an opinion then I'd say that some do, probably a majority, and some don't. They'll be the worst affected of course so they really should care.


They are also the ones most affected by over-zealous climate change-based policies.

The problem with the climate change narrative in its more extreme form is the same as the one we had with Covid. Worst case scenarios are accepted virtually as gospel, and there is no cost/benefit analysis of policies adopted.

The best approach is to continue research into how to produce clean energy efficiently, use the tech in a measured and appropriate manner, and generally be conscious of efforts to reduce pollution. Going all-out for a "save the planet now!" policy will do more harm than good. It doesn't take much thought to see why this might be.

It should be borne in mind that knowledge and wisdom aren't the same thing.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Going all-out for a "save the planet now!" policy will do more harm than good. It doesn't take much thought to see why this might be.

So will it do more harm than good or might it do more harm than good?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:

So will it do more harm than good or might it do more harm than good?


Will what do more harm than good?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The climate-change evangelists are touring the world when the rest of us managed with Zoom. John Kerry said private jets were, “-the only choice for someone like me.” If even the wealthy don’t have choices what are poor ordinary people supposed to do?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
Worst affected by authoritarian imposition of unaffordable expense such as banning ICE cars and bikes.

It won't matter though as most places will be under defacto climate lockdowns which is what the 15 minute city impositions are about.
You will have to apply to authorities to travel anywhere.


Yep, my 10 year old van is chargeable to drive in Bristol now, worth sod all to sell on because nobody will buy it. Just
so I can then buy something the sodding council approves of. It's obvious to me that Bristol will adopt the 15 minute
thing as soon as it can get away with it without rioting. It's already coming to Bath. Bristol won't want to miss out on
that revenue or citizen monitoring. They've got cycle lanes to spunk millions on.

Option one. Scrap a perfectly serviceable vehicle that is about half way through it's useable lifespan? That seems eco friendly. Rolling Eyes
Then spend a small fortune on something else that will be no doubt obsolete in their view and thus chargeable in about
6 years time anyway? These goalposts will keep moving. If my 2012 van is an ecological nightmare now (unless I bung
them a few quid each time I drive it Wink ), then it will be 2015 onward euro 6's next for the cull in I'd estimate about
three years time. That's a lot of people driving 7 year old diesel cars now who should be worried. They ARE next.

Option two. Pay their godforsaken tax (that nobody but the lentil munchers approved of) every time I want to use my van.

Option three. Burn it and claim on the insurance, o-zone be damned and push the wreck into a river for good measure.

Option four. Flog it supercheap to a foreign opportunist and it will be lobbed into a container and be spewing emissions
forever more into the very same sky but many miles away in somewhere like Africa, reputed worldwide for it's second
to none quality of vehicle maintenance.

Seems like I lose no matter what one I pick, except I lose slightly less if I choose number 3.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 15 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
I'm not sure there's even any data on that. If you want an opinion then I'd say that some do, probably a majority, and some don't. They'll be the worst affected of course so they really should care.


It doesn't require data it requires logic. Here's a scenario:

You need to heat your home. Stoking your chin you consider solar panels, a wind turbine, electricity (and a supplier that prefers renewable sources) or even gas (where available.)

Achmed on the other hand [fishing from my box of racial stereotypes] just gets to enjoy the aroma of burning dried camel dung Sick If he was doing well he might go as far as wood or charcoal.

Are we seriously expecting Achmed to go from Camel to Tesla in one jump with none of the transition energy sources the West has enjoyed over time? (Coal, fuel oil, mains gas, etc.)
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 1 year, 101 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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