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A n00b polishing a turd

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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 20 Apr 2019    Post subject: A n00b polishing a turd Reply with quote

So no one guessed what I was working on when I posted this:

https://i.imgur.com/tTUDpRa.jpg

An oblique shot: this is the top of the engine of what must be the cheapest Chinese scooter I have ever seen. It had been sitting in my neighbour's garden neglected for a while and I thought I'd resurrect it...

What I have is a 2012 Jonway "Madness" 50cc 4-stroke scooter. (A somewhat ironic name.) It didn't work when it passed into my hands but how hard could such a simple thing be to fix up?

I started by striping off all the panels to get at the wiring and engine and I almost pissed myself laughing when I found this!

https://i.imgur.com/NYLPNHe.jpg

Yes, lurking under the covers someone previously fitted an immobiliser! Must have cost half as much as the bike Smile Well, that'd might be a continual annoyance so that's the first thing I bypassed Very Happy

Spark, Squirt, Bang... that's the recipe! Let's spark first...

Luckily I had a fresh battery on hand as I didn't like the looks of the one it came with. The starter turned over, lovely! Compression was good... even better! But no spark Sad

Ripped out the coil and tested: zero resistance across the terminals so that goes in the bin. Feck, now I have to start buying things; 3.89 for a coil - what a heartbreak Very Happy

Now spark is good! Onto the "squirt" the carb. Not a splutter from this Sad Then I thought of how long the fuel might have been sitting in the tank and threw that away and stripped and cleaned the carb.

Now I'm getting a splutter when it turns over! With a little assistance of one of the kind BCF members I worked out the pilot jet was still blocked. You know how ppl say "measure twice and cut once" well with carbs it seems to be "clean twice to start cleanly" Smile

Once you get the thing going I find it very satisfying to spend the next half hour pissing about with the idle and A/F mixture screws. Purring like a kitten now.

I took a break from the engine to check out the panels: pretty disgusting Sad The black had faded to grey and the silver flaked off. "No expense will be spent!" so off I went to Poundland for some rattle cans.

Here's the front panel with a little light sanding on the right and unsanded on the left:

https://i.imgur.com/RQYb6Pn.jpg

And here it is painted and back on the... err... vehicle:

https://i.imgur.com/2kxXC2c.jpg

Wow... that is terrible but now you know what a quid will get you Rolling Eyes The silver bit was sanded, washed and painted by my granddaughter. She's only 5 so go easy Very Happy

Here's the side panels one I started sanding, one not:

https://i.imgur.com/SG9Q8oN.jpg

The lettering is some vinyl crap. I made sure to do a particularly poor job there so when you see this close up...

https://i.imgur.com/mENs9Fm.jpg

...you'll just about see the outline of the letters through the paint. A hint of Madness if you will.

Well that's the end of Day One. Tomorrow I'm going to have a look at the CV belt/gear/clutch/thingy as twisting the throttle doesn't make the wheel go round which is pretty important I guess.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks fun!
Might I just say that if it were me, as the originating country is a tad iffy, I'd make sure the thing went from A to B in an acceptable manner before starting to spend money on spit and polish jobs.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:00 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Front forks are rustier than my nuts - won't pass an MOT. Could well be your biggest expense.. if you can find any.
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far I've bought a coil, some fresh petrol and some poundland rattle cans. I only started the painting once I knew the engine would run, more for a change of pace than anything else.

Fair point on the forks. I have cleaned up chrome almost as bad with some Autosol before but I think these have actually seized completely Sad
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

139QMB engine GY6 clone?

Any part costs pennies I wouldn't worry about the forks as almost any GY6 clone can offer replacements (so pretty much any chinese 4 stroke 50/125 and some Peugeots).

Bore kit with big valve head is under 50 and with a pipe, filter, variator and carb you can get close to 50MPH (depending on fatness of rider). The CC quoted on most of the kits is fantasy, for most of the 139QMB motors without boring out the casing the biggest you can go is 50mm (a genuine 81cc but usually advertised as 100).

They are really fun to tune/piss around with. Parts are so cheap you can mess about endlessly. I had a vClic and thoroughly enjoyed mucking about with it, though by the time I gave it away it would thrash a (quality) belt in under 200 miles Shocked

If you scrape taobao and aliexpress you can even find 4 valve heads and long stroke cranks Laughing
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, mucking about with something that cost nothing and has parts for pennies seems sensible before tackling something more... elaborate Smile

Started it up again this morning - satisfying that pretty much took no effort... I think 2 presses of the button and a tweak of the throttle.

Unfortunately I think the CVT drive has completely seized: everything rotates but the important innie-outie bits (variator?) don't want to move Sad

I think disassembly and cleaning will sort it, everything looks in pretty good condition, now where did I put that impact driver...

Oh yes, that's right, I don't have one! B&Q always bang on about their Bank Holiday sales... what would be the chances?

Hmm... Ryobi 18V that does 220Nm, is that enough?
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
where did I put that impact driver.


You don't actually need one, you can wedge it against the case and just use a breaker bar to undo it.

If you don't want to bodge a tool to lock/wedge it then just buy this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scooter-Moped-Variator-Locking-Tool-139QMA-QMB/302873247598?epid=2008494449&hash=item4684a6ff6e:g:U5cAAOSw1WJZEIy4

You can get a "performance" variator on ebay for about 23 (it says vclic but fits yours) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-V-Clic-50cc-Naraku-Variator-with-Rollers/273692831861?epid=27017002339&hash=item3fb95d3075:g:DkkAAOSwmThcXX~k

It's worth reading up on how the CVT works, The variator, weights used in it, clutch and strength of clutch springs can all be played with to effect speed and acceleration.

Check if it's been derestricted too, different models use different methods but it's usually one of or a combination of variator, exhaust and CDI (just needs you to snip a wire).
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That gear lock's a neat little thing...

Breaker bar I can lay my hands on very easily. The clutch would probably just need a strap wrench.

Saved me a premature purchase, thanx!
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
I think disassembly and cleaning will sort it, everything looks in pretty good condition, now where did I put that impact driver...

Oh yes, that's right, I don't have one! B&Q always bang on about their Bank Holiday sales... what would be the chances?

Hmm... Ryobi 18V that does 220Nm, is that enough?


Do you need to take it apart? If the cover's been on, there's not much to go wrong.

You can buy the locking tool, or even use a bit of something like kindling, brass stock or WHY to wedge it.

I should think that just about any impact wrench would do. Lidl have sold one for 30 that's fine, it came with 4 impact sockets too.... max undoing 320Nm.

Personally I would avoid any cordless model.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be wary of recommending OP to chuck random performance parts at it, unless it's proven that it needs them, and also that they work?

I say this as someone who has bought performance parts which I later considered unnecessary or of no benefit.

For example a CVT variatior, just because it says Malossi or similar on the box, and says it works X-amount better than the factory OEM one, does that mean it really does, or is really needed? Over half the parts I bought for twist and go scooters I really don't think I wanted or needed, and I want to see OEM parts fail or be proven to be inadequate before throwing money at a collection of random bits that are not guaranteed to work any better.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
For example a CVT variatior, just because it says Malossi or similar on the box, and says it works X-amount better than the factory OEM one, does that mean it really does, or is really needed?


16er speshul innit. Think of the sales, man!

"Lighter rollers make yore ped go faster!"

"Oh no they don't, heavier ones do!!"

Oh no they don't.... There *is* info out there.... e.g.:

https://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/moped-tuning--rollers

The easiest "performance tuning for speed" exercise for 50cc peds I've seen was for The Boy's Peugeot Kisbee. From 30MPH fixed to 45MPH plus just by changing one wire, end of exercise! Could have made it switchable, even.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
I'd be wary of recommending OP to chuck random performance parts at it, unless it's proven that it needs them, and also that they work?


They do,I built a vclic that used the same motor. When you big bore, the standard variator shows it's piss poor quality by eating rollers. I spent alot on rollers before I realised this.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 21 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The aftermarket parts are not always of great quality either though.

To change a variator the original part must be incapable of working with the spec of the bike. Simply changing a variator will not on its own improve a machine if it doesn't need it. My experience with moped tuning is that these performance firms want to sell you all sorts of bits that don't always help.

There's more bits on my old Speedfight I'd have left std in hindsight than I changed.
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 27 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
The aftermarket parts are not always of great quality either though.


When I was struggling with the carb last week I ordered a new one (only 15) and ofc, long weekend so plenty of time to fuck about and fix the old one Sad

Anyhoo, the new carb turned up and there was a note inside the box:

Quote:
...Aftermarket high performance engine carburetor (sic) replacement. Add more horse power while maintaining near stock fuel mileage...


Amazing! I just must tear off the old one to fit this Very Happy

Just hope the wind dies down a bit tomorrow and I can get the CVT fixed.
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 28 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

More turd polishing today Smile

Disassembling the CVT seemed to do the trick: the back wheel spins again Very Happy Almost gave up trying to get the nuts undone but there's something very satisfying hearing that first crack.

Time to start putting it back together:

https://i.imgur.com/0OcTDUY.jpg

Side panels back on:

https://i.imgur.com/4saNeRQ.jpg

The left fitted quite nicely:

https://i.imgur.com/FNbvmii.jpg

But the right need a little "help" so to say:

https://i.imgur.com/ykEsJtn.jpg

Almost all back together!

https://i.imgur.com/1euaaAr.jpg

Front brake still missing so I didn't button up the gauge cluster (plus the front mud guard needs painting and the front forks need attention) but I obviously couldn't resist giving it a little test run.

Started first time, noice Smile Grab my helmet and off we go...

O. M. G. ! ! !

How do ppl live like this?! Okay, so the CVT has seen better days and it still has the original CDI but even so. This has all the feel and joy of the sit down escooter I repaired a few weeks ago Sad

I take it all back about fitting the new carb. I now also have 4 of "racing" CDI to fit. But they'll both have to wait until the front brake is working again. The rear is lack-lustre to say the least.
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 14:12 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick progress update: unsurprisingly those front forks won't clean up. First big bump and the seals would be fucked!

But I think I've got lucky and found some second hand ones that would fit for about 20. Worth a punt at that price Smile

So, no more work I can do until next weekend (no point getting the front brake fixed if the forks are coming off.)

(added)

Did turn it over for a bit, just to blow the cobwebs out: still starts first time! Just let it run so I could set the idle at warm.

I can see the appeal of these scooters to kids: very easy to work on.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
Quick progress update: unsurprisingly those front forks won't clean up.


Not with a bit of wire wool?
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 04 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Sad I did try... on my superlight it looked bad but once gone over with some autosol you could then only see some pitting on the top of the stanchions up close, at a distance they cleaned up fine.

With these not only have great chunks of the chrome gone but the corrosion has started chewing through the steel underneath. They'd need stripping and re-chroming to be usable again. Not really worth it when there are literally piles of mashed up scooters (and the resulting parts listings) all over eBay etc.
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 12 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a nice weekend but I had some work on Saturday so today for the front forks...

So yeah, the old ones are fucked!

https://i.imgur.com/kBzcrbx.jpg

And here are the eBay specials:

https://i.imgur.com/lu459d8.jpg

Under the boots they're clean as a whistle. Also, turns out all the profits for this particular eBay seller go to a kids charity - unexpected bonus! And on the bike:

https://i.imgur.com/j6HHmxW.jpg

Unfortunately the screws holding on the mudguard are too corroded to undo. Even an impact driver wouldn't shift em. Tried drilling the heads of the screws off but before I could blink the plastic just started disintegrating Sad I suppose the metal heating up. Another scan of eBay then.

Went for a quick ride about and the bike now handles as one might expect. I think the old ones were completely seized.

Next up the brake master cylinder. Gave it a good clean out after evicting the spider but it just doesn't seem to want to squirt any brake fluid through. I would imagine all the little rubber seals are knackered. eBay shopping list getting bigger!
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So finished the "turd" this weekend! First up replacing the mudguard that went in the bin with the old forks. Got this for 20 new, gunmetal's a close enough match:

https://i.imgur.com/W3o10IB.jpg

If you can only pay your mechanic in chocolate this is what you get:

https://i.imgur.com/wVpte7A.jpg

As mentioned before, spiders were living in the brake master reservoir. I did try and fix it but gave up in the end and fitted a new one Sad

https://i.imgur.com/PQMgIKf.jpg

The only "problem" being the brake switch connectors but not hard to replace (old one on the left, new on the right)

https://i.imgur.com/U3kJPkl.jpg

Top tip, stick a cable tie around the speedo cable. I'll let you guess how I waste 15 mins...

https://i.imgur.com/hbvYYB6.jpg

I think the rubbers under the seat are shagged:

https://i.imgur.com/DCawRXd.jpg

Couldn't find anything similar enough to fit so I went with sticky-backed draft excluder foam:

https://i.imgur.com/HTHttxZ.jpg

Now all the panels can go back on:

https://i.imgur.com/0OfSaIO.jpg

Damn, battery cover has gone astray somewhere Sad

https://i.imgur.com/9AwwD57.jpg

Okay, so other than that cover, just needs mirrors. Spares bin to the rescue! Ta-da!

https://i.imgur.com/B2Y5ob7.jpg

If you look at those indicator lenses some previous bright spark thought a thin layer of silver paint would look kewl. The indicators still show through but I have a feeling that'd be an MoT fail Sad

Oh well, indicators and battery cover. Almost there Smile
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:29 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pleased you've cut the lawn down a bit - it was really annoying me. Oh how I've bitten my tongue all the way through this and allowed the thread to go in only one direction!

Battery cover was in the grass cuttings and thrown away.

Silver paint might wipe off with thinners or something similar?
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 10:20 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Silver paint might wipe off with thinners or something similar?


Hey, good shout! I'll give that a go tonight Thumbs Up
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 06 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinners didn't take off the paint before melting the plastic. Thankfully replacements lens were only a few quid. I made a battery cover out of cardboard and duct tape in the end.

MoT tomorrow; should be interesting!
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HardlyDavidso...
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 06 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really surprised it failed the MoT...

Major fault - valve stem rubbers cracked! Is that it?!

Minor fault - headlamp angles, fuel filter weeping. Easy fixes Thumbs Up

Other than that it just needs a new rear brake switch and brake fluid topping up.

Bless the guy at Surrey MCs. He reluctantly dragged out the calculator and quoted me to replace the valve stems but then suggested "why don't you save yourself the money and take the wheels off yourself, drop them down to me and I'll only charge you a few quid."

My kinda ppl!
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 06 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
Bless the guy at Surrey MCs. He reluctantly dragged out the calculator and quoted me to replace the valve stems but then suggested "why don't you save yourself the money and take the wheels off yourself, drop them down to me and I'll only charge you a few quid."


I thought you meant valve stems ("O" rings), and Iwas about to ask you how they knew.
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