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Easy-X
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 Posted: 10:44 - 25 Apr 2019  Post subject: Electric Vehicle Heavy Thinking Thread |
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Just reading an article on a fast changing electric delivery trucks and unfortunately it made me think  Cue quick back of the fag packet calculations...
Petrol energy density in battery terms = ~9kWh per litre
For a 10 litre example motorbike fuel tank, equivalent battery capacity = 90kWh
Assuming 30% efficiency for a petrol engine and 90% efficiency for an electric motor would that mean an EV electric bike would need a 30kWh battery to get roughly the same "capacity" as a petrol bike?
Also, as you can refill a petrol tank in less than 5 mins would that make the "power output" of a fuel pump 1MW? (an hour subdivided by 5mins, 12x90?) So to replenish a 96V e-motorbike battery you would need cable in the kilo Ampere range?!
As a comparison my ebike has a 48V 12Ah battery so ~0.5kWh and takes a good few hours to charge with a 54V / 4A charger (optimal would be 12 divided by 4 = 3 hours.)
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 12:45 - 25 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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I think this has been done a dozen times.
Some of us think EV's are wonderful.
Some of us think they are wank.
The two sides will never agree even though it is obvious I am right. 
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Easy-X
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| Posted: 13:44 - 25 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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I was more interested in hard numbers and the limits of thermodynamics 
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Monkeywrenche...
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| Posted: 16:45 - 25 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Some numbers and opinion here, nothing shocking or revelatory, it's all been said before
https://www.menloenergy.com/?p=535
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Easy-X
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MCN
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Raffles
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Suntan Sid
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| Posted: 01:36 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| HardlyDavidson wrote: | I was more interested in hard numbers and the limits of thermodynamics |
All you need to do is go to the IOM for the TT and watch TT zero!
The fact is, at the pinnacle of electric bike engineering, an electric bike can just about complete one lap, (with a much lower average speed than a Superstock bike), even then the bike has to be "managed" to get it around one lap without running out of juice.
On the other hand, a Superstock bike will do two laps, flat out, at a much higher average speed.
The Superstock bike can probably do three laps, flat out, without refuelling, (Still at a higher average speed than the electric bike), the rules, however, mean mandatory pit stops every two laps!
Currently the electric bikes are not even close to matching the performance of an ICE bike!
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thx1138
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 06:18 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| Suntan Sid wrote: | | HardlyDavidson wrote: | I was more interested in hard numbers and the limits of thermodynamics |
All you need to do is go to the IOM for the TT and watch TT zero!
The fact is, at the pinnacle of electric bike engineering, an electric bike can just about complete one lap, (with a much lower average speed than a Superstock bike), even then the bike has to be "managed" to get it around one lap without running out of juice.
On the other hand, a Superstock bike will do two laps, flat out, at a much higher average speed.
The Superstock bike can probably do three laps, flat out, without refuelling, (Still at a higher average speed than the electric bike), the rules, however, mean mandatory pit stops every two laps!
Currently the electric bikes are not even close to matching the performance of an ICE bike! |
The same is true about Formula E/Formula 1 but that hasn't stopped the electric car becoming ever more popular.
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MCN
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MCN
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MCN
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Easy-X
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MCN
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| Posted: 21:55 - 26 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Electric becomes more redunant if fossil fuel augmented by bio becomes more efficient by recovering the thermal losses and reducing frictional losses.
By thaT TIME PETROL WILL BEW A SQUILLION DOLLERS A bbl SO 'RE-NEWABLES' WILL BE THE FASHION.
AND MY CNUTING CAPSLOCK WAS ON.
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Easy-X
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| Posted: 00:23 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Could easily convert a bike to Ethanol and it's feasible to produce it "Carbon-Neutral" but activists have been selling the lie that electric will save us for so long everyone believes it.
What upsets me most is that ppl with any knowledge of physics (and specifically thermodynamics) aren't speaking up that the whole thing is a sham. Much the same as the Imans that say nothing when another terrorist gets stabby
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Last edited by Easy-X on 00:43 - 27 Apr 2019; edited 1 time in total |
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RhynoCZ
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RhynoCZ
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| Posted: 00:41 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| HardlyDavidson wrote: | Could easily convert a bike to Ethanol and it's feasible to produce it "Carbon-Neutral" but activists have been selling the lie that electric will save us for so long everyone believes it.
What upsets me most is that ppl with any knowledge of physics (and specifically thermodynamics) are speaking up that the whole thing is a sham. Much the same as the Imans that say nothing when another terrorist gets stabby |
Ethanol, electricity, petrol, diesel, CNG, Hydrogen... you always have to ask where does the fuel come from. Which is also why Tesla can't use the ''Zero emissions'' plates anymore.
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Easy-X
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| Posted: 00:46 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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Well yes, the environmentalists kicked off big time when the Jap nuclear plant went pop. So the Nips shut down all their nuclear plants...
...and fired up their coal-fired power stations instead!
Great win for the planet 
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RhynoCZ
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| Posted: 01:09 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| HardlyDavidson wrote: | Well yes, the environmentalists kicked off big time when the Jap nuclear plant went pop. So the Nips shut down all their nuclear plants...
...and fired up their coal-fired power stations instead!
Great win for the planet |
Many countries decided to get rid of the nuclear power plants after the Fukushima disaster. It's interesting though, as after the Chernobyl and other incidents, nobody cared a bit. 
Anyway, it's all hypocrisy. Germans claim they want to go full green to save the planet and get rid of nuclear power, while they buy electricity from Czech republic where we've got two nuclear power plants that only make power for export and we still burn coal. We do have some solar power plants and dams etc., but you can't have a working grid based on whether the sun is shining or the water flowing.
EDIT: Well, you could have such power grid (sun, water, wind) but you would need a huge pile of batteries, that would make sure you supply the grid with steady frequency and voltage. By the way, lithium mining isn't what one could call green, nor is the process of making solar panels.
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MCN
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Posted: 02:56 - 27 Apr 2019  Post subject: |
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Why is it not safe for men to wear Russian underpants?
Cause Chernobyl Fallout.
Where did I leave my lead lined overcoat again? 
There was almost a Chernobyl in England loooong before Chernobyl.
British Nuclear folk were just extremely lucky that the reactor fire went out. 
https://youtu.be/ElotW9oKv1s
And it was really built only so Britain could produce plutonium for a 'Physics Package'.
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Ste
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| Posted: 09:23 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ
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| Posted: 09:33 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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| MCN wrote: | Why is it not safe for men to wear Russian underpants?
Cause Chernobyl Fallout.
Where did I leave my lead lined overcoat again?
There was almost a Chernobyl in England loooong before Chernobyl.
British Nuclear folk were just extremely lucky that the reactor fire went out.
https://youtu.be/ElotW9oKv1s
And it was really built only so Britain could produce plutonium for a 'Physics Package'. |
Slovakia had two nuclear incidents in 1976 and then 1977. Nobody talked about it, nobody knew about it, not even locals knew there even was a nuclear power plant right next to their cities/villages.
The first incident occured when the operators didn't properly close the ''lid'' of one of the fuel rods and once everything got hot, the cooling medium (carbon dioxide) shot the fuel rod out of the reactor into the reactor hall. Luckily this happened in the first phase of turning the reactor on, so the fuel rod was not that radioactive yet. But still, two people dead, carbon dioxide poisoning. Funny bit about the poisoning was, that the CO2 detectors were not functioning, because someone stole the light bulbs that should indicate the concentration of CO2 was too high. They also locked the emergency exits, to prevent more theft.
The second incited was a fair bit more serious. The fuel rods were stored with a bag of some moisture absorbing material to keep it dry. When refueling the reactor, one of the operators noticed this bag was ripped and some of the moisture absorbing material fell inside the reactor. So they used a vacuum cleaner and vacuumed the casset where the fuel rods go as well as they could. Little did they know, some of the material stayed in there and clogged up the cooling circuit (CO2 cooling medium) and when they refuel the reactor and started it up, the fuel rod had no cooling and melted inside the reactor, even made a hole in it, the now irradiated water flowing wherever, everything inside getting irradiated and it was only a pure luck they could stop the reaction. Quite like the Chernobyl, where they also had issues with cooling which in their case resulted in a complete meltdown.
So, the Zone could have been even closer than many think.
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MCN
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| Posted: 09:35 - 27 Apr 2019 Post subject: |
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WTF R U drawing us into here YFPOS?
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Yous can access my dung shoot.
***MCN hates when they do that.***
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 359 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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