2 stroke 50cc for a learner?

[Derek Noakes]

And by the way going back to some of your comments about it not being a grey area, it's black and white with the 28mph thing. That's not true. I know full well that the law states a 16yo cannot ride anything that is designed to go faster than 28mph. That bit is black and white. The grey area I was referring to was trying to get information on any given bike as to what the design speed is. How the hell are we supposed to know what is legal to ride and what is not if there's no official source out there that you can refer to for a given bike?

[Ste]

If it only goes 28mph then it's legal for a 16yr old with a CBT to ride.

Are you trying to find a technicality so that your daughter can legally ride a derestricted 50cc or are you trying to find a list for the purpose of knowing what 50cc bikes are legal for her?

[Derek Noakes]

[Ste]

The dealer or seller will know whether a bike is still restricted.

Pretty much everything 50cc sold new is legal for 16 years and are legal until one of the previous 16 year old owners derestricts it or tries tuning it.

Dealers and manufacturers say whether their bikes are legal for 16 years old to ride so there shouldn't be any guess work required.

[GSTEEL32]

Am I being completely thick here ?

50cc 2 strokes, like the Aprilia mentioned earlier have never ever, in a month of Sundays,been designed to do 28 mph.

Indeed, part of their sales patter was to entice buyers by offering de-restricting services once the owner turned 17.

But that didn't make them illegal to buy or own at 16.

If you want a sh!t moped, get a 4 stroke and be done with it. I'd give the same advice for 125cc's too. If you want a sh!tty restricted 125, go and buy a YZF or something .......

[Derek Noakes]

[GSTEEL32]

Well, in the instance of the Aprillia, the Italians make a clear difference between "moped" (14 years old) and "50cc motorbike" (16 Years Old).

I suspect the UK homogenise the pair, albeit with a power restriction.

Switzerland also used to have some pretty restrictive 125cc laws, but I think they've now all pretty much been agreed across the continent at 11kW.

Your biggest problem regarding a 2 stroke, is finding one that hasn't been buggered about too much....

[Pete.]

[Derek Noakes]

[Fizzoid]

[bhinso]

Pedal and Pop.

[Derek Noakes]

[Ste]

According to Google, it only needs pedals if the moped was first used before 1 September 1977.

[Riejufixing]

Split hairs? Oh, for goodness' sake.

https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/additional/files/vehicle-type-approval/vehicle-type-approval-for-motorcycles/vca039.pdf

3. UK National Regulations – The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 and The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (C&U and RVLR) 3.1 Definitions Motorcycle - a vehicle having less than four wheels and weighing less than 410kg unladen. This definition includes three wheeled motorcycles and three-wheel mopeds:Three Wheeled Motorcycle - a motorcycle having three wheels, not including a motorcycle and sidecar. Moped - a motorcycle weighing less than 250kg and with a maximum design speed not greater than 30mph. If the engine is an internal combustion engine its capacity must not exceed 50cm3. Propelling pedals are not required.


https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/108

[F18“moped” does not include light quadricycles, but otherwise has the same meaning as in Directive 2006/126/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 20th December 2006 on driving licences,]

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32006L0126

"Introducing a category of driving licences for mopeds will, in particular, increase road safety as regards the youngest drivers who, according to the statistics, are the hardest hit by road accidents."

"mopeds:

Category AM:

Two-wheel vehicles or three-wheel vehicles with a maximum design speed of not more than 45 km/h, as defined in Article 1(2)(a) of Directive 2002/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 18 March 2002 relating to the type-approval of two or three-wheel motor vehicles (5) (excluding those with a maximum design speed under or equal to 25 km/h), and light quadricycles as defined in Article 1(3)(a) of Directive 2002/24/EC,

the minimum age for category AM is fixed at 16 years;

[bhinso]

This is getting like Tef.

[Fizzoid]

[Riejufixing]

[Ste]

Many hairs can be split but the answer is never going to change from 50cc and 28mph.

[Ste]

[Teflon-Mike]

The semantics of what constitutes a moped or a scooter, as opposed to a more comventional motorbike, is something that the regulators have been wrestling with, pretty much since they decided that there aught be a 'moped' licence, at some time before I was even out of nappies....

Meanwhile.... EU Licencing, offered ultimate arbiter to the matter.... the 'restriction' isn't on the bike; it's on the rider.... ride what you like... but its the RIDER's responsibility to ensure it complies with licence regs; not the shop that sells it, not the MOT man, not the rider's Dad! Its up to the RIDER to make sure what they ride, is inside their licence entitlement... end of the day, no one MAKES them ride the dang thing.

Modern Nanny State NIMYism, in abundance here! You dont like the law, that says 50cc and 28mph.. so cant possibly be you that's wrong, must be the law; so how to break that and not get caught, and who should take the blame.... any-one but the person promoting the crime!!! FFS! If you dont like chillis, you dont try buy a bludy Chilli con-carne, then moan that the chef never warned you about the Hot-Bot!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Jmoan]

This thread highlights the sad state of the country.
It wasn't so long ago that euro kids may as well have got these mopeds gratis when they became 14 as they were so many buzzing around on them.

No wonder plenty of people are turning to that common law right to travel or even sticking a couple of jet engines onto the back of a pushbike or themselves.

[Bhud]

A very long time ago, I had, very briefly, a Kymco ZX50 which took me across town (London) to work. It was no slouch from 20 to 30mph, but the problem was, 30mph is where it stayed. You could tell it had a little more, but it was restricted. The restriction was quite a complicated affair - can't remember what it was but it would have required a couple of hours left at the mechanic, and perhaps a couple of expensive parts.

I reckon a 50cc 4-stroke wouldn't have been a bad option for young learners up until about the mid-90s, but since then, the culture has changed and the roads are too busy, and these bikes now belong in the hands of collectors, who remember them from their youth, living out in the country. I don't think being copped by the cops is the main problem with anything derestricted though. A 50cc 2-stroke felt dangerous to me only because of the 30mph restriction. In reality, if you aren't just filtering from traffic light to traffic light, even in town you need to be able to run at 40-45mph on 30mph roads. People try to overtake you - most of them safely but far from all of them - it feels dangerous when you're being constantly chased up the tail (probably even worse for a female?), and you develop bad riding habits.

[Pete.]

[GSTEEL32]

OK. You've got me. BCF has finally broken me.

I'm out.

Isn't it plod's job to prove the semantics, not ours ?

We're talking about a sh!tty 50cc 2 stroke here, the sort of thing we used to ride as 14 year olds, without a helmet, around the streets once it got dark....

I agree with Jmoan. WTF. WTAF.

[stevo as b4]

OP I have to ask, Are you by any chance Tara's cousin?