2 stroke 50cc for a learner?

[Derek Noakes]

Wish I hadn't gone down the technicality route on the moped thing now, Jesus, I conceed!

[Ste]

Basically yes, all 50cc bikes when sold new in the UK are restricted so they can be ridden by 16 year olds. I'm sure that there are some obscure 50cc bikes that for whatever reason when sold new aren't restricted to 28mph but I think you'd have to go out of your way to try and find one.

People selling secondhand 50cc bikes that are still restricted have got a different target market to people selling secondhand 50cc bikes that have been derestricted. Therefore the chances are, they'll say in the ad if it's restricted and if they don't then it's the very first thing to ask them about.

When wanting your daughters bike to be within the law, opinions about how dangerous it is to be restricted to 28mph don't come into it, even if they are correct.

[Pete.]

[Ste]

[Evil Hans]

[Easy-X]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Jmoan]

[Nobby the Bastard]

You have a basic right to travel.

Shanks pony...
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Ste]

[Easy-X]

I love this bit:

[Monkeywrenche...]

[Teflon-Mike]

Will it?
All my bikes simply say "Bicycle" on the V5
Its a query that has come up a few times, over the years TBH, cos
Swansea seems to be a peculiar source of bureaucratic idiosyncratic.. probably getting revenge for the the #BBC making 'New' Dr Who, in Hill-Taffy, I reckon... but still!
Still matters not a lot, cos the restriction is on the rider, not the vehicle. 50cc and 28mph... a moped could be bored out or modified in any number of ways since it was first registered, still the riders responsibility to ensure whatever they ride is inside their licence entitlement, 50cc and 28mph, end of... don't matter what the sales man say,what the reg doc says, what dad says or the chap down the pub; its the riders responsibility, no-one elses.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Easy-X]

I suppose if you were "from out of town" the rules might not make sense...

"Moped" is an archaic term currently defined as a two-wheeled vehicle with a petrol motor of up to 50cc OR an electric motor of less that 4kW. And in either case a maximum design speed of 28mph.

"Motorcycle" is anything that is over 50cc OR over 4kW OR over 28mph design speed.

That was easy! But that's just the definition of vehicles. Now for the rider...

Category AM entitles the licence holder to ride a two-wheeled vehicle with a design speed of over 15.5mph (BTW, this is the low powered eBike limit) but under 28mph.

(Category A1 and upwards I won't bother repeating for this discussion as it starts getting hairy with power-to-weight ratios!)

Now the interesting thing is that the official government website makes no mention of engine sizes in cubic centimetres or wattages with regards to Category AM. So one might be forgiven for thinking you could ride, for example, an 80cc motorbike that was speed restricted to 28mph.

NOTE: the wording is "designed" so you can't get away with a bike that can go way over 28mph for either the vehicle definition OR the Category entitlement by just riding slower! The bike has to be incapable of pushing much over that limit (tail winds and downward hills not withstanding.)

The confusion (on the part of the government issuing bad information) is the miss-manglement of EU licence entitlement harmonisation whereby the DoT just took existing UK legislation and applied what I would call in geek terms a "mod" instead of writing a clear and precise document. I'm sure you're all shocked by such news!

I'm not going to read all the UK legislation and the EU legislation and the miss-application of EU legislation over the top of UK legislation to give you a definitive answer but...

tl;dr with Category AM you are only entitled to ride a vehicle designed for a 28mph top speed.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Jmoan]

[Ste]

[Easy-X]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Ste]

[Easy-X]

Depends, for a prosecutor then yes, life is so much easier but as a defence lawyer you'd be spitting chips if your client stated their intention to go with "freeman of the land."

Ofc the majority of ppl don't reject laws because they're inconvenient - it's only a minority daft enough to try the freeman defence.

My point is that if everyone suddenly rejected the authority of courts etc. society may or may not descend into chaos but certainly lawyers would stop getting paid! A terrible prospect, I think we can all agree
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Ste]

Freeman of the land don't have defence lawyers.

Society would not descend into chaos if more people were deluded enough to think that they could reject the authority of courts.

[andyscooter]

[Easy-X]

[Ste]