Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Might be in the poop...

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:15 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Might be in the poop... Reply with quote

but hope I can save it!

Bike's due in for big service in a week (£520+) but I had already changed the oil & filter just about 3 weeks ago - was a late decision to get the service done - and had ordered a new chain & sprockets.
Decided to fit them this evening.

First thing to do was slacken off the rear caliper torque arm bolt - and it sheared straight off! Bugger.

https://i.postimg.cc/T2pBpCr3/brakesheer1.jpg

After the initial shock and the thought of my large servicing bill now hitting the ceiling (I could easily ride it there as is), I realised I may be able to remove the offending bolt thread without too much bovva.

Luckily, it's fastened by going through the torque arm and has a nut at the back (also well rusted). I can't push it through in situ due to the proximity of the disc:

https://i.postimg.cc/V5PbBJSL/brakesheer2.jpg

but I reckon when I remove the spindle (or rear axle if ya like) the caliper should swing down and allow me the access I need, to remove the ramaining bits and get on with the operation.

There is no thread in the actual arm, of course. May still be able to unscrew it, even it's stuck, using the rusted-on nut.

Otherwise, I can hopefully pull the wheel off and do the same, then get on with doing the chain & sprocket.

Just warming you up for when any issues arrive.... Rolling Eyes

PS - yes, I'll be cleaning up those other fasteners, having just done it all a few weeks back, and hopefully replace the old rusty ones with a new set.
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

leolion
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 14 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:29 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

slather in acf50 so as it starts to move it bit? i did this with a spark plug that was stuck and 2 weeks later it (begrudgingly) came out, guess you may need some heat on it to.

undo the other nut (carefully) then (gently) you maybe able to knock the bolt thru from the disc side (to get that nut flush again) and you may have enough of the bolt poking through to be able to get a set of mole grips on it from the front.

hope that made sense. Get some lube on it for a few days tho.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:42 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

leolion wrote:
slather in acf50

ACF50 doesn't mix well with brakes.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

leolion
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 14 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:44 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
leolion wrote:
slather in acf50

ACF50 doesn't mix well with brakes.


true but its to get the bolt out not on the disks or pads.!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:59 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, take the wheel off, wind the broken stump out with the nut.

Heat will help. It's a steel bolt in alloy, alloy expands more rapidly than steel when heated. If you get it hot enough to vapourise a drop of oil, it'll be loose. If it's super stuck and the nut winds off, stick a couple of washers under it and tighten it down again, this should either pull the stub through or break it loose.

Remove the calliper before applying heat. Consider taking the whole torque-arm and calliper bracket to the bench and doing it in the vice, remember torque arms attach at both ends.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

BTTD
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Nov 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:00 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

leolion wrote:
slather in acf50 so as it starts to move it bit?


I'd go for a penetrating oil, like plusgas or equivalent, however you'd obviously need to be careful spraying it around that brake disc. Laughing

Is that a steel bolt in alumium though? Aluminium to steel corrosion..... that's no fun.


EDIT: Oh, I started typing that 20 minutes earlier.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:35 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your tips - I did give the bolt a good wallop from the outside to see if it would budge and it wouldn't. I will put some penetrating oil in - but I reckon I'll have that wheel out first. Should come out, I reckon.

That'll give me free access to the brake bits.

I think I'll heat it up first in fact - got a pencil gas burner and if that won't do it. also got a flamethrower I can use. Well, it's supposed to be one of those brazing burners, but it's like the bluddy great flammenwerfer from Far Cry 3! Damn thing set fire to my radiator when I was trying to fit new lugs to it!
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:25 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just drill it out.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:05 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Screw another nut up flush to the other and you may be able to back it out the wrong end.

If using heat uou can rub some candle wax on the broken end, it will wick into the thread and make life easier.
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:10 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

UZI 9MM and shoot the fucker out. (Eye protection.)

Penetrant will only annoy you when it does nothing much to free it.
Heat is the answer.
Penetrant only helps when the thing starts moving.

A punch and a 2lb hammer will teach it some manners too. The shorter the punch the more energy is transferred to the stump.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

bugeye_bob
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Sep 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:23 - 15 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you take a picture from further out, Im not ignoring the advice given, but I do wonder if the caliper and the other end of that torque bar will move, allowing the nut and the threads to pass out the rear side.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:49 - 16 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stinkwheel has the easiest method with the least that can go wrong. Wheel off, unbolt the torque arm from the other side, then work on it on the bench. Gives you a chance to clean the caliper as well while its all apart.

I would be wary of anything that involves using a hammer, lubricant or hammers while it is still on the bike. Blowtorches and lubricants are not to be used near brakes and brake lines. If you smack it with a hammer you could break the alloy carrier, or miss and bend the brake disc. Or get successful, dislodge it, and bend the brake disc.

Only drill it if you know what you're doing. Its a hard steel bolt with a sloping surface in an alloy part. If the drill slips, it will go through the alloy quickly. Best done with a decent drill bit in a pillar drill, or by an experienced hand using a normal hand drill.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:37 - 16 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, wheel off, apply heat. I think you're very unlikely to be able to get the shank out by just turning the nut cold, since it's siezed tight enough to have the head shear off. Get the nut off, put the sheared side of the assembly down flat on whatever you use as an anvil, when it's hot, and strike the threaded end with a hammer to move it 1/2mm, then put it over a bigger nut or something to give space to drive it through (still hot).
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 09:40 - 16 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Only drill it if you know what you're doing. Its a hard steel bolt with a sloping surface in an alloy part. If the drill slips, it will go through the alloy quickly.


Sometimes it's good do drill a pilot hole very slightly off-centre and ream it out until the hole just meets the alloy.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:05 - 16 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for your further suggestions - here's what I've done this morning...

I attempted to remove the front nut & bolt, but it was very similar to the back one - and I didn't want that shearing off, too, so I applied a lot of gentle force, whilst keeping an eye on the nut to make sure that when the bolt started moving, the nut did, too - and it did! Eventually.

So I knew that there would be some movement in the torque arm and with this knowledge, proceeded to remove the wheel - and sure enough, the torque arm lowered sufficiently to remove the wheel quite easily...

https://i.postimg.cc/d3w4nrqH/sprock01.jpg

I left it like that for now. I did apply some lube to the front nut & bolt, as there is a chance I may be able to get that off in one piece.

I'll try that tomorrow (never had much success with penetrating oil in the past, but it has worked once or twice, so worth a go). Once I have the torque arm off, I'll have a go at the rear one with heat.

I'm kicking myself, though, as it was only after I had removed everything that I realised I didn't have the right size socket for the front sprocket nut Rolling Eyes

Well... I am getting on a bit and I always forget something.... Laughing

New one should be here tomorrow.

Anyway, I never really know how to judge the cush drive. I only ever had one that was really obviously in need of replacement.

This looks fine to me:

https://i.postimg.cc/jjngjRgX/sprock02.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/HxGScFFC/sprock03.jpg

the sprocket doesn't seem too bad, either - but I have a new one I'll be fitting:

https://i.postimg.cc/85hZhtVf/sprock04.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/2yGTtyyz/sprock05.jpg


though I hope to keep it a bit cleaner. Embarassed

I'll report back once I've done some more - due to my state of health, I can't do as much in a day as I used to.

Cheers
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:20 - 16 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Screw another nut up flush to the other and you may be able to back it out the wrong end.

If using heat uou can rub some candle wax on the broken end, it will wick into the thread and make life easier.


In case this got lost in translation:-

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvs_EFR-f4E
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:04 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I'd get on with getting that front sprocket off to start with today.

It was a bugger!

I tried to use a method I'd seen on a YT video recommended here, to get the front sprocket nut loosened - it was very tight (don't think the previous owner bothered with a torque wrench or being careful - seems he overtightened every bolt I have removed from the thing).

I put a screwdriver through the chain, having looped it around the refitted rear axle (over a thick cloth to prevent any scoring) and then wrapped a thick cable tie tight around the chain, to hold it together in front of the screwdriver.

Well, I was pushing on the T-bar, with a metal pipe extension, when it suddenly gave and I headbutted the bar end and split my forehead open and gave myself concussion!

Oops Confused

Later, after being patched up and seen to, I found that the cable tie had split - not only that, my screwdriver had a 45° bend to it! Shocked

So I reset the chain, put a thick allen key through it this time, and used a bench vice (yup!) to clamp the chain together and this time it worked perfectly. Still took a lot of oomph - but at least it's off now.

I'm wondering if I should have bothered, though. It's visible in the previous pics that the rear sprocket doesn't have much wear and the chain stretch is minimal - well under maximum, and the front sprocket, whilst showing signs of wear, isn't that bad, either:

https://i.postimg.cc/0jCPgPRk/frtsprk.jpg

I was hoping for that "new bike" feel usually experienced after fitting new chain & sprockets, but I don't think I will be, somehow. Not with this little wear.
I checked the mileage and although I've had the bike over 4 years - so the chains been on it at least that long - I've only done 2,000 miles on it. That's due to having some nasty health issues the last couple of years. I've done more miles this year already than I did in the previous 2.

Anyway - for those recommending I "remove the front bolt and work on the sheared one on the workbench" - I don't know how I will do that without disconnecting the rear caliper from the brake line?

So I'll have to do it on the bike. I'm getting on with that tomorrow. If I can keep my balance... Laughing
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Riejufixing
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Jun 2018
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:34 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wyberton John wrote:
Anyway - for those recommending I "remove the front bolt and work on the sheared one on the workbench" - I don't know how I will do that without disconnecting the rear caliper from the brake line?


Perhaps you could unbolt your vice, and take it to the job?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:38 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I could undo the caliper bolts, though - that would allow me to take the thing off, I s'pose. That's if that twat hasn't all but welded the things on!

btw when I said I put the bench vice on the chain, I obviously (at least to me) had removed it from the bench! I'm not quite strong enough to lift my bike onto the workbench!! Laughing
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:55 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing wrong with those sprockets and if you want to judge the state of the chain measure over 20 pins. Oh, and be sure to un-do the front sprocket BEFORE you remove the wheel next time, just stuff a piece of wood or metal through the wheel so it can't turn.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Pigeon
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:55 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removing front sprocket nut, I like the method of sitting on the bike with front and rear brake engaged and using a 2ft long breaker bar to reach down.

There are some advantages to being a fat git Smile


......does require wheels and chain to be attached though.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:23 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say there was nothing wrong with them - there is definitely wear on the front one - several knuckles are worn away quite a bit.

Could have done a couple more years, though. I'm not bothered - bearing in mind these have been on the bike over 4 years, having new ones on gives me peace of mind that all is well, gives me more years/miles before they need doing, helps me to get to know the bike better (eg shearing and overtightened bolts) and is a plus point if and when it comes to selling.

More positives than negatives, so I'm happy. Mind you, I am still having balance issues and have knocked over or dropped a number of items this morning!

Doh!
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:22 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

"If symptoms persist, please consult your local G.P."

3 weeks next Thursday if anything like my local practice!
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:27 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Front sprocket nuts are a piece of piss when you have an air impact wrench.

If you clean up the old sprocket and lay it directly on top of the new ones, I suspect you'll find more wear than you initially thought, especially regarding hooking of teeth.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wyberton John
Nova Slayer



Joined: 27 Feb 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:33 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some progress and a further kick in the nuts today - recorded the sesh:

https://youtu.be/9rIz2cIWu8w

Drilling it tomorrow and hopefully that will be it, sorted. Spent the rest of the day cleaning up all the parts.

Tip: Don't use Cillit Bang Degreaser for your bike degreasing needs. For shiney metal it's fine - for anyhting else it's completely shite.

Took me over an hour just to do the sprocket cover. Confused
____________________
Fazer Thou Gen 1
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 4 years, 315 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.10 Sec - Server Load: 0.42 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 139.24 Kb