So, cornering...

[Easy-X]

I started riding in January and over the last couple of weeks I feel I'm getting a lot better at cornering. So this being BCF I'd really like someone to cut me down and bang on about how little I know

Now at the CBT I was taught one needed to load the front suspension rather than grab at the front brake so as to gently shift the weight towards the front and also press the tyre in a little to the road for a bigger grip area. Well that makes perfect sense.

What I didn't realise is this also alters the geometry of the bike by shortening it a little: a smaller vehicle with wheels closer together can turn tighter but is also more unstable (leans easier.) "FFS! I should know this!" The wheel diameter of my ebike is around the same as the 125 but the wheels are frighteningly close together in motorbike terms. Hence the ebike's scary/agile mix even though it tops out at a lot less top speed.

(Note to self: find longer frame for next ebike build, downhill racer frame not long enough.)

And then obviously it follows that gradually rolling on the throttle releases the front suspension and effectively increases the length of the bike making it more stable (stands up.) I may yet get the hang of this...

tl;dr "You know nothing, Jon Snow!"
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[ThunderGuts]

I am pretty new to this myself (passed beginning of October) and have read about the shortening wheelbase effect of braking while cornering and I believe it is a bona fide technique, albeit I suspect more on the track!

I was taught countersteering during my training which was helpful, but I've found these tips have also helped (and before anyone mentions the chickenstrip thread, they've been worn down a lot more now!);

- Grip the tank with your knees
- Loosen up the grip on the bars
- Lean forwards slightly so your torso/shoulders are "loose" rather than taught with the bars
- Slightly move your upper body into the corner (not quite hanging off the bike mind you!)
- Look at the exit point and use peripheral vision for hazards
- Slow in, fast out
- Commit to the corner; I was told, and have learnt from experimenting, that it's a far more pleasant experience to put some extra lean to get around a corner than to wobble on the brakes praying the front end won't wash out

It's odd - the first few months (which to be fair were slippery autumnal/early winter months) I didn't have much cornering confidence at all but it's getting there now and I can feel it steadily improving. Feels good doesn't it
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TG.

[Kentol750]

Horseshit. You only go into corners at a speed you can stop in the space you can see. Bike goes through it...you gripping on for hope only upsets the bike. Imagine it's you with partner... when they grab your excitey bits, it's not really that arousing. When they are gentle however...... hmmm. You were 'taught' cornering. Ha ....teflon will be along soon to point out how 657 years of motorcylisting hasn't made him, or us, any better at not dreading. It's just luck and ball sweat.
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Some bikes.

[owl]

Watch “A Twist of the Wrist”
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Observation is the greatest source of wisdom.

[Teflon-Mike]

[Easy-X]

This forum is nothing if not reliable

Got my theory next week BTW.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

Overthinking WAY too much, especially at this stage.

Aim to enter a corner in neutral trim (so neither accelerating otr decelerating) having completed any braking or downshifting before you turn in. Approach all corners with a wide line (right handers from the gutter, left handers from the white line)

Look at where you want to go. This is the most important point for cornering sucessfully. I find visualising a line painted on the road you want to follow helps.

Get back on the power when you see the exit.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[leolion]

ive found pushing down on the footpegs helps corner sharper ( right one foe right turns, left for um left obvs)

[Pigeon]

You can use the front brake to load the front tyre as you go into a corner, but that generally means you're deliberately going "too fast" because "normally" you'd have done your slowing down phase primarily with the bike in a straight line.

If a corner does surprise you, save the personal telling off for later. In the meantime push the bar which points to the corner you want to go round (counter steering) to initiate the turn quickly.
Lean your body into the same direction and push down on the same peg.
Don't grab the front brake and don't look at the ditch / opposing kerb / car / tree (you will then hit it).

Look where you want to go!

You can use the rear brake to pull the nose of the bike into the turn in place of the front brake (grabbing the front brake makes a low side washout more likely as you've not been able to load the front up in time in the up/down straight phase).

Bottom line. Don't over complicate things. Read the road so slowing down is done before the corner.


The vanishing point is useful for helping to read the road. If its coming towards you quickly, slow down, if its moving away then you can probably speed up (taking in the usual road markings, signs, weather, traffic, views, location etc).

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[Easy-X]

Well I was trying to put my finger precisely on why a motorbike that cruises happily at 45mph, tops out at 55ish feels like a motorised arm chair - it's just such a relaxing ride

And then the ebike that cruises at 25mph, tops out at 30ish feels like a insane death machine I do find myself doing a lot more shoulder checks on the ebike now than before getting the 125 so that's something.

Apologies for going overboard on the over analysis but I do have this habit of trying to make sense of things. As my old sales director used to say: "your problem is that you find answers to questions that never should have been asked!"

Anyhoo, discounting the stationary 90° bends, i.e. traffic lights, there really isn't as much cornering in my daily commute as I'd previously thought. I find myself crossing the town a lot more just for kicks as there are some lovely bends that aren't really on the way to anywhere.

tl;dr (again) enjoyment factor skyrocketing over just the last few weeks - nice weather helps ofc
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[ThatDippyTwat]

[Monkeypony]

[kgm]

Whilst it's not really possible to steer the bike properly without counter steering it helps to be consciously aware of the effect as you can use that knowledge to turn in more sharply and out the bike where you want it with greater ease. I have a friend who has been riding for years but only recently had counter steering explained to him after reading the roadcraft manual. He struggled to understand how it worked until he tried it consciously but now that he has he is far more comfortable cornering at speed as it lets him tip in his big adv bike and adjust his line more easily.

[ThunderGuts]

[Easy-X]

Just as a contrast I found, at very low manoeuvring speeds I was neglecting to steer - literally trying to lean my way round junctions and mini-roundabouts. Much better at that now but I could probably do with practising some tight U-turns (in disused car park, obs.)

Is this a good example of countersteer?

https://youtu.be/VbF882DM3ME?t=121


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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[ThunderGuts]

This is the video of the guy getting it wrong. He did survive I believe (somehow!!).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVE79XT8-Mg
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TG.

[Teflon-Mike]

Oh-Kay.. KCode promoted "Counter-Steer" AHRGHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[Monkeypony]

[kgm]

Also worth noting that loading the pegs with your hands off the bars will make the bars move in a similar manner to counter steering. Watch any stunt rider standing with their hands off the bars.

Keith Code may spout pseudo science and inaccuracies but counter steering (or whatever term you want to invent) works. Hence why it's taught in the roadcraft manual amongst other places.

It's not only mechanism to initiate a turn but it's by far the most effective and other methods create similar forces and movement in the bike anyway, just to a lesser extent.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

I first read about counter-steering in the famous 'Richards Bicycle Book', which I think pre-dated Keith Code's descriptions. It's not pseudo-science.
https://productimages.worldofbooks.com/0330267663.jpg

[Monkeypony]

[chickenstrip]

[Easy-X]

When I did my CBT they never said anything about steering at all beyond related stuff like rear brake dragging and clutch feathering for walking pace manoeuvres.

I did see something about so-called "counter steering" early on but a) they seemed to be going very fast in the video and b) my mate with the CBR600RR said not to worry about it: "you're probably doing it subconsciously anyway." So I didn't (worry that is.)

Very interesting stuff though as just watching a 'tube video only gives you one person's opinion and the comments section hardly facilitates a quality dialog like wot we do 'ave on 'ere
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Teflon-Mike]