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Wave2k
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Joined: 06 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 08:47 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Re: Works for me Reply with quote
G wrote:
I do still hanker after a 200hp track bike, but even with working shoulders, I expect I'd have more fun on a supersport and maybe finding other supersports to play with (ie bit of club racing), than changing the bike to find more people of a similar lap time.
(Actually yesterday's track evening I had three people doing a similar lap time to me - two modern litre bikes and a CB500!).


They are kinda fun in a terrifying way but I think I'd be much quicker on a sorted 600.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:

Z650 Wub

Actually, are those wheels on that one original? I thought cast wheels didn't come in on them until the F models? Which is why I'd go for one of those (I've had an F1 and an F2, as well as a US B model Mr. Green ) I'm not a fan of wire spokes - cleaning!

Having owned a Z1 and Z650 at the same time, I definitely prefer the 650.


Yes, the C3 had those cast wheels. Mine was identical to that.

As far as I remember the spokes went out with the B series (single front undrilled disc and drum rear) but I'm sure someone will correct me if that's wrong.

Z650 B2

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/KAWASAKI%20Z650%2078.jpg
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah yes, twin front discs is the other reason I would always go later than a B model if I wanted another Z650. But then I'd want to upgrade with Lockheed callipers anyway probably, or any effective modern equivalent. But the only reason I'd have another one now is if I had the money to do the complete modification job I always wanted to, but never got around to, which would be something nearly as extensive as the Sanctuary treatment. And I would go for a mono shock conversion Smile

I like that 900-based RD 'replica' too. Not sure I like it enough that I would consider buying one, but then I'd probably need to see it in the flesh - as with this Kwak, that could be the decider.

Bhud, some interesting points there. Clearly, the fact that it evokes bikes from my earlier years is a factor for me here, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It's enough that I like whatever bike it might be, and I think this new Kawasaki has done enough that I'd consider it were I in the market for a new bike. I don't really feel a need to over-analyse my reasons for liking it now that I know I do - and I'm only really talking about a feeling here anyway, as I've never ridden one, just suspect it'd be ok enough to start with. I would upgrade suspension and performance though, something I've nearly always done to my bikes in the past, same with my current one.

But it is an interesting discussion, and I'm kinda relieved that people will still enter into such. I was beginning to wonder... Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
grr666 wrote:
I wish Yamaha would remake the TDR250. I'd buy one tomorrow.


A modern take on one Could be made fairll simply I'd imagine.

Buy a YZ250. Fit 17" rims, roads tyres and lights.

Or even buy an old MZ mastiff (a rather heavy-duty german street moto chassis with gucci suspension that took an XTZ660 clone motor) and shoehorn a banshee engine into it. It will almost certainly fit fairly readily because Yamaha made the SZR660 which was effectively a TZR250 rolling chasis with an XTZ660 motor in.

Obviously, you'd need to do a single vehicle approval for it but I bet it would be a total hoot.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevo as b4 wrote:
or re-clothing the H2 as a GPZ 750 turbo?


Thanks stevo, I now get to talk about the GPz750 Turbo again! Very Happy
I loved my one, it was a great bike to me back then, and I still love it's look. But something as simple as painting it a different colour (I've seen them done in Kwak/Lawson green) puts me off - weird!

I'm not sure that the look would transfer well to a modern version though.

Owning another one now? Not that bothered really. It was a heavy bike, and I wouldn't be happy with the handling after all the other stuff I've owned since. The only thing I'd really want to revisit is the turbo experience, which was a nice alternative kind of feel to power delivery.

It's a fairly unique bike, and I don't feel a need for any kind of modern revisit that would evoke the original. It was what it was, and that's enough. If that makes any sense.

The supercharged H2 has its place now for me. Looks wise, it isn't everyone's cuppa, but with the finish they have as standard, it has sort of grown on me, although it'll never be a favourite aesthetically. Got to admit it's largely the fact that it's supercharged that appeals, but perhaps the novelty would quickly wear off.

But that's the thing - I don't just like the retro look; my tastes go wider nowadays. I just take it on a bike-by-bike basis though. Sometimes, I surprise myself by what kind of look catches my eye!
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grr666
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like other people to make my bikes for me. I don't have the knowledge to make my own and aren't
that fussed about trying to learn mechanical skills at this point in my life.

grr666 wrote:
I see it as more of a cover version.


Let me clarify. After the long slow intro, these 2 versions of the same song head in very different directions.

RD350 - Vienna. High pitched Midge Ure 80's tache version.

MT09 - Vienna. Faster, gruffer, louder. But still Vienna.

Worlds apart but still with their similarities. And to suggest any MT09 tribute to the RD350 would be somehow tamer
than the MT09 derived bike (or even a stock one for that matter) is in fantasy land. And yes I've ridden both.
Admittedly the RD was very flickable as much as I got to have a try on one given I didn't have my licence. It felt fast
at the time compared to the 125 i was running myself, but not even close to the way the MT gets you up to pace.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
grr666 wrote:
I like other people to make my bikes for me. I don't have the knowledge to make my own and aren't
that fussed about trying to learn mechanical skills at this point in my life.


Yeah, but you could just come up with the ideas and throw money at someone who is competent enough to produce them for you Smile
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:


A modern take on one Could be made fairll simply I'd imagine.

Buy a YZ250. Fit 17" rims, roads tyres and lights.

Or even buy an old MZ mastiff (a rather heavy-duty german street moto chassis with gucci suspension that took an XTZ660 clone motor) and shoehorn a banshee engine into it. It will almost certainly fit fairly readily because Yamaha made the SZR660 which was effectively a TZR250 rolling chasis with an XTZ660 motor in.


Neither which IMO would make a TDR in looks, ethos, character or the riding experience.

The YZ would just be another supermoto with all the good and bad points that entails. The MZ or XT660X is still a street supermoto type bike (ok not that much off road ability or design) but a banshee engine in either won't make a TDR.

The TDR was never a supermoto bike, it was a bonkers Street bike with off road looks but had road bike suspension, gearing and brakes. You could if you were Mr Yamaha make a nice convincing TDR for today if you started with a clean sheet chassis design and an MT07 motor.

The original TDR was IMO closer to a KTM Duke 390 or even say an adventure styled version of a Triumph Street triple than it was to a proper MX derived supermoto. Im sure in 1988 Yamaha knew then that a YZ or WR would never make for a great road bike.

As for a GPZ750 turbo for today, well if Kawasaki put a near exact copy of the GPZ fairing onto a H2 they would instantly make a very decent looking bike compared to the only get it out in the dark Alien face H2. No matter how dated in 2019 you think the GPZ looks are, I'd rather look at a bag of sick than a H2 or an MT10.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stevo as b4 wrote:
I'd rather look at a bag of sick than a H2 or an MT10.


I'm sure that could be arranged Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
If we're going to talk about bikes they should have made, Suzuki should have done a production run of this:

https://i.postimg.cc/Nf10RZHM/spon2.jpg

Bill Hunter's Spondon Suzuki GSX1100 Turbo. Maybe different colours though (talking of bags of sick Laughing )!

Kawasaki should have followed up the 750 Turbo with this:

https://i.postimg.cc/qRbJvdSb/1982-Kawasaki-GPZ1100-Turbo-f45ls.jpg

And how about this for those who want sports bike performance and handling but can't bend enough:

https://i.postimg.cc/1zys0tZ7/Modded-R1-zpsfa503336.jpg

Better than bags of sick!
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B0ndy
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PostPosted: 00:09 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks nice but other than that not anything particularly interesting about it from what I've seen and read, may change my mind after a test ride though.

If I was going for this type of bike my first choice would still be the street triple.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
grr666 wrote:
Let me clarify. After the long slow intro, these 2 versions of the same song head in very different directions.

RD350 - Vienna. High pitched Midge Ure 80's tache version.

MT09 - Vienna. Faster, gruffer, louder. But still Vienna.

Worlds apart but still with their similarities...


LMAO, bikes as cover versions? TBH I don't understand half this thread but it's one of the better one lately Thumbs Up

If a Harley is this... then my Superlight is this?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, cover versions are a tribute to, copy of or take on a worthy original are they not? I thought as analogies go it wasn't a bad one.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
B0ndy wrote:
Looks nice but other than that not anything particularly interesting about it from what I've seen and read, may change my mind after a test ride though.

If I was going for this type of bike my first choice would still be the street triple.


I do wonder if it'd be a bit meh to ride. I mean, I'm sure it's ok, but perhaps uninspiring as standard. Hence my comments on upgrading. Are you planning on a test ride?

I've had a Street Triple, been there. Maybe a 765*. But even if the 765 is a hoot, it doesn't grab my imagination like this does. That's got to be purely a looks thing. The Japs do seem to pull their punches with retro bikes when it comes to delivering some fun. Which, if you think about it, isn't necessarily in the spirit of the 'originals'. Wasn't the Z1 supposed to be an ultimate on performance when it came out?

*It's all just speculative for me anyway, as I won't be buying anything anytime soon.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 08:39 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
With regard to that XSR900.... It's a four stroke with that paint scheme so that makes it an XS650 tribute rather than an RD one doesn't it? Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
With regard to that XSR900.... It's a four stroke with that paint scheme so that makes it an XS650 tribute rather than an RD one doesn't it? Laughing


I'd have said closer to an XJ model than XS.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:
I'd have said closer to an XJ model than XS.


You are correct.

https://classic-motorbikes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/12401.jpg

Laughing
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yamaha nomenclature is indeed interesting and significant. I agree, the XJ moniker appears to be have been reserved for 4-cylinder bikes, and XS for twins. This will be an internal code within Yamaha Motor division. They're big on things like that. Yamaha Electone product names are just as interesting. Yamaha are known for even doing things like font differences that only senior execs know about.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Out of interest then in 2019 and with current legislation, what would BCF say are the must have features for a 2019 Yamaha TDR250 re-make?

It would need to be achievable and able to be sold new.

For me it'd be a tubular chassis, short and upright with wide MX bars, and and off road style riding position yet with shorter travel road suited suspension and eye popping brakes, so switchable ABS is a must have. Less than 140kg would be good, and gearing that won't let it go past 110mph.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

https://classic-motorbikes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/12401.jpg

Laughing



What a belter of a bike they were, wish I hadn't sold my last one, especially as it came to an untimely end.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:
MarJay wrote:

https://classic-motorbikes.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/12401.jpg

Laughing



What a belter of a bike they were, wish I hadn't sold my last one, especially as it came to an untimely end.


They look... awful. They need a higher rear end... monoshock... smaller engine...

Basically they should look like an RD350LC.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
Shaft wrote:


What a belter of a bike they were, wish I hadn't sold my last one, especially as it came to an untimely end.


They look... awful. They need a higher rear end... monoshock... smaller engine...

Basically they should look like an RD350LC.


They do, if you put them side by side you can see the family resemblance, which I think is what Yamaha were trying to achieve.

The XJ650 is actually quite a petite machine, which makes the motor a proper focal point, a major positive factor to my eye and it's a real rev monster, which is normally thought to be a good thing.

Monoshock might've been possible, but I don't think weight saving was much of consideration, given the bloody great driveshaft hanging out the back.

But they could've done something with the tailpiece, to give it some balance, maybe those little flares they put on the LC, or even just a grab rail, to give it a bit more of a finished look.

But it was a pretty good riding experience then and not entirely awful now, good fun thing.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 20 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


They look... awful. They need a higher rear end... monoshock... smaller engine...


We've got used to compact LC engines. A big air cooled lump used to be the look for 4Ts. Case in point, CBX1000, which took it further than anything else. I used to think if the frame didn't look properly filled with engine, the bike didn't look right Laughing
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 08:50 - 21 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sorry but the XJ looks awful. It's as if a 350LC engine is actually made of rubber and someone then inflated it like a ball. It pushed the tank up, the tailpiece down, the forks away and filled all the gaps... Ugh.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 21 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
No need to be sorry! Laughing Part of that is probably just that photo. But I always thought it was a bit bland-looking. It was rated quite highly in its day though as a decent enough bike, believe it or not. A lot of Yams of that era didn't really appeal to me. The XS range looked porky once you got to the larger capacities imo. Even the RD-LCs weren't stunning - it was about how they rode, and the innovation from a road bike pov.
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