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leolion
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: security inventions Reply with quote

Just a few ideas ive been kicking about.

Removable bars- now most bikes dont have a throttle cable would this be possible? the brakes and clutch could go on a separate bracket attached to the yoke making the bars removable when your around town.

Quick release front wheel, obvs you'd need a front stand to drop down and a lockable front axle to put in between the forks to prevent someone just bobbing another wheel in but could this be a decent overnight idea?

Full front wheel cover, a bit like the disklocs used on cars but supersized, would prevent a large pole going through the front wheel to aid lift away thefts.

Transmission lock, im not clever enough to work this one out but im sure it could be done and combined with a removable gear shifter then have a plate that locks down to prevent anything from being put over the shaft.

Any intelligent person with money want to run with these ideas?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:11 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A small inverter kicking 440v AC to wires buried in grips. Move the bike without the coded key? 440v through your arms and heart. Toasted twat Thumbs Up
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doggone
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
A small inverter kicking 440v AC to wires buried in grips. Move the bike without the coded key? 440v through your arms and heart. Toasted twat Thumbs Up

12V Electric fence units are inexpensive, you need a route to earth for them to work well.
It's a good thread though, some lateral thinking ideas might work.
One of the best (car) immobilisers I saw is the clutch claw which locks the pedals together and is in a position hard to access with cutting gear.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Re: security inventions Reply with quote

Ok, just as a bit of credential, quarter century ago, I put the first Disc-Lock on the market... this is not exactly a novel topic.... but still

leolion wrote:
Removable bars- now most bikes dont have a throttle cable would this be possible? the brakes and clutch could go on a separate bracket attached to the yoke making the bars removable when your around town.


Oh-Kay.. some bikes have tubular bars, some have clip-ons... ie 2 handle-bars... which one do you remove, and given that a typical handlebar is around 26" or the average fellas inside leg measurement... how exactly to they lugg that around town with them whilst doing thier shopping? Even just a clip-on isn't exactly something you can stick in your pocket!

That's just the first thunks on that one... ideas of how to make sure that the bars go back on in exactly the same place, and taking the things on and off doesn't make them rather wobbly over time, likely issues with the Construction & USe regs, etc etc etc....

And... no... this idea doesn't even get on, let alone off the launch pad!

leolion wrote:
Quick release front wheel, obvs you'd need a front stand to drop down and a lockable front axle to put in between the forks to prevent someone just bobbing another wheel in but could this be a decent overnight idea?


See above!! From the off; can you see any-one wandering around town or a race meet or walking into a pub, with a motor-bike wheel in thier pocket?

How do they carry the stand, when the wheels on?! Would it be a permanent attachment to the forks? That will do the steered and unsprung masses a lot of good!

leolion wrote:
Full front wheel cover, a bit like the disklocs used on cars but supersized, would prevent a large pole going through the front wheel to aid lift away thefts.


Oh Kay, so you dont need lugg a whole wheel around when the bike's parked.... just something as big and probably heavy when it isn't! Rolling Eyes

leolion wrote:
Transmission lock, im not clever enough to work this one out but im sure it could be done and combined with a removable gear shifter then have a plate that locks down to prevent anything from being put over the shaft.


Fantastic... rather than put a disc lock on the front wheel, or use a grip-lock to lock the front brake lever 'on' (and make bards hard to hold)... lets just throw a spanner in the works of the gearbox... hope its strong enough not to break... bearing in mind this is how the 'Park' setting of a car Auto-Trans works..... and wait for some smart arse twokker to shake thier head in amazement.... and slip the drive chain!

leolion wrote:
Any intelligent person with money want to run with these ideas?


Err... Not really, no!

Care to come up with any more?

Hint:- there's two ways to steal a motorbike:-
1/ to ride it away
2/ Carry it away.
The only way to stop anyone carrying it away is to tie it to the floor. Many ways of stopping them ride it away... but, still wont stop them carrying.

A-N-D, the thing about security is that it has to be more of a hindrance to the potential Twokker, than the legitimate rider.....

Not the other-ways-about.. or the security measures aren't used or are by-passed by the legitimate rider....

Bit like the fire extinguisher being removed from its bracket and used to prop the fire-door permanently 'open' cos every-one has got peed off with trying to remember the code that the security whallas probably changed when every-one went home on Friday afternoon... and sent them a 'memo' to tell them... yes, its probably on your desk... that's right... the other side of the locked door!"

Now, you have 'hard' security; locks chains, things that physically have to be removed to move the bike. Then you have 'soft' security; things like alarms, that cant actually stop the bike being stolen, but alert others it is being or has been, in the hope of intervention.

In either case, prevention is better than a cure, and deterring a twokker from even trying is the first line of defence; IF they try.... well, how much damage might they do in the trying, even if they fail, and by inference your security 'succeeds'....

"Warning! This motorcycle is protected by SEMTEX! Any attempt at unauthorised removal, will result in a very large explosion, likely to render anything within 50meters, dead and/or severely damaged!"

Twokker.. a better educated than usual one.. it can read... reads the warning.... doesn't believe it and has a go anyway.... bomb goes off.... bike is a mangled pile of molten aluminium and plastic, twokker be dead.... who wins?

(actual answer is your lawyer; charging you inordinate legal fees trying to re-fight the Tony Martin case precedents!)
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given that most bikes are picked up and chucked in vans to be broken up for parts, the only security worth a toss is something making it impossible to pick it up and chuck it in a van.

For the other occasions (turds trying to hotwire/wheel it away etc) the current stuff does a good enough job of stopping them.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Given that most bikes are picked up and chucked in vans to be broken up for parts, the only security worth a toss is something making it impossible to pick it up and chuck it in a van.


You mean like gargantuan mass? Like a Harley... one of the most nicked brands in the world..... oooh... hold on.... haven;'t you just bought a Harley? Laughing
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owl
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always fancied the idea of a ride in lock system, slight recess in the floor or a wall mounted box that as the wheel enters a bar slides through and locks the wheel in place, for home/garage use obviously.

I would think the main difficulty would be ensuring the lock bar slides through the spokes rather than into them.
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leolion
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES i finally got a TEF response-ok he was telling me im stupid but im part of the crew now!!
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

leolion wrote:
YES i finally got a TEF response-ok he was telling me im stupid but im part of the crew now!!


Tef is not to be admired. He just spews what can only politely be termed as 'word salad' over his keyboard until such time as you lose interest. It's a clever method of making people believe you know what you're talking about when you do not.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under the principle that compressed air is heavier than atmospheric pressure air, I propose an inflatable ground anchor.

Made of the finest unobtainium, easily stored when empty, when filled will be approximately the size of a waste paper basked and containing approximately 65kg of compressed air, or 50,000 litres in uncompressed form, fitted with a simple schrader valve for easy filling with a bicycle pump.

Simply place the deflated ground anchor by your rear wheel, and pump to approximately 200,000psi with your trusty pump Thumbs Up
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Area denial is what you want. In short, a minefield to park it in that only you have the plan for.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

owl wrote:
Always fancied the idea of a ride in lock system

There's a couple of bike-lockers already on the market as far as I know.

At that level, its a small steel garage or freight-container; and it's probably about as secure as you can get... but you cant take it out and about with you.

Adding wheel-locks to tie a bike in place in the locker, then, is probably a bit belt and braces over the top, and likely t make it harder for the legitimate rider to use than a twokker to defeat; Something in between? And if you are relying on the bar through the wheel, essentially you have a slightly less convenient to use ground anchor, in a polythene bag... where do you start and stop?

On the out-and-about idea; a few years ago, town council started putting cycle-lockers about town; I think there were about a dozen of them, in about three locations, like the swimming baths; like a swimming baths cloths locker, you stuck your 50p or whatever in the slot, and could open the door, wheel in your push bike, then shut and lock the door..... as long as bike fitted!

Great idea.... and only twenty years after MAG campaigned for better provisions for motor-bike parking, asking 'only' for steel hoops to be put in the motor-bike lots! Too expensive apparently, and the hoops presented a 'trip-risk' the council may get sued over! Rolling Eyes and of course, motorbikes parked for free... so it didn't generate them any money..... like 50p a time in a locker for a push bike!

THAT, the financial incentive got the 'corporation' to do 'something'... but I believe that right now, the lockers are all still there, and you can stick a push-bike on one if you want... but the locks have been removed and the doors are all mangled from twockkers seeing them as a 'challenge', the money in the slot-machine as much as they'd likely get for nicked push-bike! And the project deemed a failure, and non cost effective.

Pays your money and takes your chances, really!

- I mentioned the disk-lock before; worth a elaborating on that one.

At the time I was a uni-Student studying Mechanical Engineering, and rather peed off that the bike was nicked three times, and tampered with countless more, during the time of the Bellgreen Riots.... and the 'Joy-Riding' rampage.... SU actually offered us all Halfords push-bike D-Locks, on, I think it was a £5 deposit. Useful, but awkward to carry, and rarely could you get one through the wheel and round anything immovable, like a lamp-post. So most still rode around with dang great locks and chains around thier shoulder, or relied on the pathetic OE steering lock. A few of us, stuck padlocks through the vent holes of a drilled disc, but at a time when most lightweights and a lot of big-bikes, like one mates Miaco/Trumpet hybrid, still had drum brakes this didn't work so well, although the Miaco/Trumpet rider did stick his padlock through the drive chain... but I'm not sure that that even stopped the wheel being turned much!

I came accross the Disc-Lock in France; patent pending, the 'inventer' having commissioned a batch of locks to be made by a foundy.... then run out of interest when asked to pay for them!

Designed and shaped to fit around a brake disc; it was a bit more secure than a padlock, and would go on an unvented disk; didn't work too well.. OK at all!... on Honda CBX550's (Yeah, I had one of them! dats how I know!) or the dispatcher's favourite, Honda VT500, with wampy inside out disc in a drum 'inboard' disc brakes, but still..

As disc brakes started to proliferate, so they became more viable, and oooh.... twenty five years on, imitation is the sincerest for of flattery.... but it don't pay the bills! Fact that they are now so ubiqueteouse, says a lot for the concept, and the practical usefulness of the things....
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Afraid I can't help further than what's already been said. You have to remember too that devices or lack of parts will only slow a thief down. If they see a part missing then they'll return with a suitable piece to allow theft to take place.

Have a story:
Holy Island or Lindisfarne on the Northumberland coast. A mega hot spot for tourism and visitors but a tidal place too.
The county council saw those visitors and got greedy. They added pay machines to a large car park and got rich, but, a thief saw money being generated and hatched a (simple) plan..
The island being tidal sees tourist folk fleeing before they're trapped for 8 hours until the water drops. The island goes from chaos to peace within an hour. If you're a burglar and you time that peace with darkness, you have free run to pinch things.
A thief brought a large plumbers manual pipe cutter with them. In the darkness and alone in the car park they silently sliced every single cash/ticket machine from their support pole. They'd waited until the machines were full to the brim and about to be emptied.
(The council used square supports next time)

What I'm saying is they will always find a way. Might slow them down for a short while but they'll hatch plans and still take what they want.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking on the motorbike and push bike thefts in my area (there was a fair run of them a few months ago) 99/100 accounted for by one thing:

Was it bolted down?

Theft of push bike from outside local shop - not locked to anything. Dirt bike stolen from back garden - thieves just pushed it out in broad daylight... and so on Sad

Bolt it to something big with... something big! Big enough to require more than bolt cutters. Angle grinders are noisy and do take a bit of time to cut through things (relative to bolt cutters.)

All the rest of the security options are pointless if two hefty fellas can throw it in a van!
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those ideas seem to range from impractical to outright dangerous. Laughing

The best security is to park next to a more desirable bike than yours that's got worse security than you've got.

That and to kill all bike thieves.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chuckled at that but then thought of the car jackings in South Africa. Usual MO was to wave a gun at the driver's window and turf the fucker out. Then drivers started keeping a loaded pistol in the glove box. So the car jackers started just shooting the drivers and turfing the body out Sad
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owl
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
I chuckled at that but then thought of the car jackings in South Africa. Usual MO was to wave a gun at the driver's window and turf the fucker out. Then drivers started keeping a loaded pistol in the glove box. So the car jackers started just shooting the drivers and turfing the body out Sad


Let us not forget the blaster

https://www.cars.co.za/motoring_news/top-5-unique-south-african-car-security-innovations/42044/
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andym
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a small explosive charge attached to the brake lines that is triggered when the speed goes above 50mph and the brakes are applied Twisted Evil
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more difficult the theft prevention the more hassle for the user to get through it.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:
How about a small explosive charge attached to the brake lines that is triggered when the speed goes above 50mph and the brakes are applied Twisted Evil


In b4 "User forgets to disarm it".
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

owl wrote:
HardlyDavidson wrote:
I chuckled at that but then thought of the car jackings in South Africa. Usual MO was to wave a gun at the driver's window and turf the fucker out. Then drivers started keeping a loaded pistol in the glove box. So the car jackers started just shooting the drivers and turfing the body out Sad


Let us not forget the blaster

https://www.cars.co.za/motoring_news/top-5-unique-south-african-car-security-innovations/42044/


I want Wub
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
andym wrote:
How about a small explosive charge attached to the brake lines that is triggered when the speed goes above 50mph and the brakes are applied Twisted Evil


In b4 "User forgets to disarm it".


Not a problem on my bike Sad
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two very large grumpy gentlemen follow you wherever you go and guard your bike while you go about your business Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
Two very large grumpy gentlemen follow you wherever you go and guard your bike while you go about your business Thumbs Up


Perhaps we ought to start a bike protection racket.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I once saw someone who had welded a bracket to the mainstand and frame on his CG125 with holes that lined up when the mainstand was down. The then put a padlock through the holes locking the stand in the down position.

I thought this was particularly well thought out.
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