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Varadero 125 rough idle?

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rancevas
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Joined: 15 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Varadero 125 rough idle? Reply with quote

Hello, please tell me if this is normal, as I really have no idea. 4 strokes are a quite new teritory for me.

My carburated Honda Varadero 125 (2004) has smooth accelleration/decelleration. Doesn't stall during idle or anything like that. Starts quite easily.

But when it idles, I can see the rpm indicator very slightly fluctuating from time to time. Between +- 150 rpm when idling at 1500.

Is this normal or abnormal?
if this is not adressed, will it cause issues in the future?
Should RPM at idle on two cylinder four stroke be stable and not move one bit?

Thanks!
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 17 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it a rough idle? Or a dodgy tachometer?
Bike's 15 years old, and by now likely well past its prime, and spent most of that duration at the tender mercy of know-nuffink-learners... its a wonder it hasn't had the out-put sprocket welded to the shaft.... TBH.... to within four-thou, under water, whilst playing the bag-pipes.... Laughing (Sorry, little in-joke and jab at the legend of the bunny-guard)

Is it a cable driven, mechanical tachometer, or an electronic one off the ignition pulses? Go check the book? What? You don't have one!! Well, that's where you aught start!!

If its a mechanically driven cable tach, that sounds pretty normal, they do that with age, and or its the first signs that the cable has about had its day... before spending anything more, 'maybe' just swap the cable and see if telemetry wobble goes away. IF you cant just live with the little tacho-wobble... some bikes don't even have one you know!

If its an electronic, ignition pulse driven tach, they take a signal as in a click count off the pulses on the ignition feed to give indication of how many revs engine spinning. Electrickery then turns that into an output, either on a galvanometer.. ie volt-meter, with a dial behind marked in RPM's rather than Volts... or via a stepper motor that yurns as many degrees as the electrickery tells it. Most likely a galvo type dial, and good odds that any wobble on the needle at low revs is just hum in the works and the return-spring that pulls the needle back to naught, getting a bit old... live with it, or pull it apart and clean it out, and hope that a) you dont loose anything and can put it all back together, or b) the spring, which probably isn't totally broke righyt now, doesn't completely break when you try!

Way to test 'properly' if the idle is fluctuating, is to put a work-shop strobe on the magneto rotor, and look for a timing mark moving back and forth when the light flashes at fixed rate.. some more convoluted electrical test meters have a function for this; but that's how you test the actual idle speed, at the crank.. with another, trusted way of measuring the rpm's, not the rather vague and inaccurate dial on the dash... though you could try another one and see if it still wobbles...

But... if bike is running happily enough, what the rev-counter says makes little odds... like I said, many bikes don't have any, so unless its a real problem... its not a problem!
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rancevas
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Joined: 15 Apr 2019
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 18 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
Is it a rough idle? Or a dodgy tachometer?
Bike's 15 years old, and by now likely well past its prime, and spent most of that duration at the tender mercy of know-nuffink-learners... its a wonder it hasn't had the out-put sprocket welded to the shaft.... TBH.... to within four-thou, under water, whilst playing the bag-pipes.... Laughing (Sorry, little in-joke and jab at the legend of the bunny-guard)

Is it a cable driven, mechanical tachometer, or an electronic one off the ignition pulses? Go check the book? What? You don't have one!! Well, that's where you aught start!!

If its a mechanically driven cable tach, that sounds pretty normal, they do that with age, and or its the first signs that the cable has about had its day... before spending anything more, 'maybe' just swap the cable and see if telemetry wobble goes away. IF you cant just live with the little tacho-wobble... some bikes don't even have one you know!

If its an electronic, ignition pulse driven tach, they take a signal as in a click count off the pulses on the ignition feed to give indication of how many revs engine spinning. Electrickery then turns that into an output, either on a galvanometer.. ie volt-meter, with a dial behind marked in RPM's rather than Volts... or via a stepper motor that yurns as many degrees as the electrickery tells it. Most likely a galvo type dial, and good odds that any wobble on the needle at low revs is just hum in the works and the return-spring that pulls the needle back to naught, getting a bit old... live with it, or pull it apart and clean it out, and hope that a) you dont loose anything and can put it all back together, or b) the spring, which probably isn't totally broke righyt now, doesn't completely break when you try!

Way to test 'properly' if the idle is fluctuating, is to put a work-shop strobe on the magneto rotor, and look for a timing mark moving back and forth when the light flashes at fixed rate.. some more convoluted electrical test meters have a function for this; but that's how you test the actual idle speed, at the crank.. with another, trusted way of measuring the rpm's, not the rather vague and inaccurate dial on the dash... though you could try another one and see if it still wobbles...

But... if bike is running happily enough, what the rev-counter says makes little odds... like I said, many bikes don't have any, so unless its a real problem... its not a problem!


Thanks for the reply. It's an electronic tachometer.

Was wondering that because I had just recently rebuilt this engine. It had 19k miles, and seems like it was well-looked after. I want it to feel as close to a new one as possible. And it's getting there.

I synced the carbs by hand, as to what had felt "right".
After a bit of fiddling around i had found a sweet spot, between too much air getting in and too little. Those two are just half a turn apart. And as I had mentioned earlier, rpms drop quickly, rise smoothly and are quite stable despite the small fluctuation.

I had set the mixture screw 4 and a half turns out on both of them. Will check if that's too lean or too rich after i'm gonna do some miles. This configuration seems to work quite well for me.

Overall, the only thing that still worries me is camchain tensioner. I don't know if its too tight or too loose. I made it finger-tight, but i am planning to go to a mechanic for him to take a look at it.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow... "really no idea, 4 strokes are new to me" and yet you dive straight into an engine rebuild.

Are ppl getting braver these days... or its it the other thing?
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rancevas
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PostPosted: 06:45 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
Wow... "really no idea, 4 strokes are new to me" and yet you dive straight into an engine rebuild.

Are ppl getting braver these days... or its it the other thing?


Rebuild is just "follow the instructions and don't fuck up".
So far it worked for me.

I have successfully rebuilt a minarelli horizontal two stroke engine in the past. I know how 2 strokes are supposed to behave, and what I meant by "4 strokes are new to me" is simple. I don't know how they are supposed to behave. I have never had a 4 stroke before and this is the first one.
How can you know if something is abnormal when you have no reference point? This is the main reason for my, well, dumb questions
I have looked at various forums, youtube videos to catch a glimpse of what a normal dashboard operation looks like. Haven't found it, therefore wrote for the guys on this amazing forum.

Thanks
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Sister Sledge
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Joined: 17 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: 06:49 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you post a video to show us what you mean?
In the video show the rpm indicator and also have sound so we can hear the engine.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 19 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

rancevas wrote:
...therefore wrote for the guys on this amazing forum.

Thanks


You'll get a long way with that attitude Thumbs Up

But yes, as Tef says either it is having an RPM wobble or the gauge is having the wobble.

Probably the simplest test without fancy equipment is just grab a second hand tacho of a similar sort to yours (cable or pulse driven) and see what that does. If it's from a different bike it'll obviously be calibrated wrong but you'll just be looking at the relative change at idle.
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