Zero electric motorcycles

[ocatoro]

anyone here been for a ride on a Zero?

Swansea University had some engagement days on for a week at the start of May and I got to try out a couple of them.

The DSR, adventure style, with the upgraded "power tank" which allows fast charging and larger capacity battery pack (I think). It was the black forest special edition, which I've seen one for sale at £17k, so quite pricey!

rode well though, felt like a decent 600 for pace. lots of torque though. and linear, from standstill all the way to top speed of 106mph. I was told this had a range of up to 200 miles. 150 in mixed average riding. not sure what that would drop to at 80mph or so on long motorway jaunt, mind.

then had a go on the smaller naked S model. which had half the battery capacity, but similar range due to reduced power output. The university chap had the impression that this bike officially met the kW restrictions of 125 bikes for L plates and CBT use, which appeared to be a case of legislation being too slow for the technology because this little tiddler was identical in acceleration to the larger more powerful model, right up to its limited top speed of 87mph.


I must say though, they both were a very very nice ride. particularly the little one which was like a slightly faster version of my ducati monster to ride. nimble, light, with a sporty edge but totally unintimidating with all of the power being accessible.


with the range in mixed use being around 150 miles, I see these as having much better legs than electric cars due to the fact that that's all I expect out of a petrol motorcycle anyway. yes you have to stop for slightly longer to charge, but that'd only become an issue on a longer journey, when 150 miles between rest stops is about right for a walk about, a coffee, and a bit of grub anyway in my experience. Day to day, commuting you'd be grand just plugging it in every few days overnight.


TL:DR...
had a go on a couple of Zero Motorcycles, I really liked them.

I think electric bikes are going to be a success.

anyone else had a go on one? any thoughts?
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CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600

[Polarbear]

Do they plug into car charging points then?

Because if it's a standard house point then where are you going to charge it on you journey over 150 (which I'm very sceptical about) miles.

Many electric cars struggle to do 150 miles and you have all that space for batteries. I just cannot see how you get 150miles out of a glorified car battery.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[ocatoro]

[Polarbear]

OK, I've just had a look at their site, It's km not miles but it's still reasonable if you get the top of the range (pun intended ) model with the power tank.

Town riding gives you 359km or 220 miles. Pretty good.

However with motorway riding 180km at a steady 113 km/hr or 111 miles at 70 mph which is not so impressive.

Despite the speed limit I am never under 80 on the motorway on my bike so I dread to think the hit the mileage takes the faster you go.

Also charge time standard, 12.1 hours. With max accessory chargers (whatever they are) 3.3 hours.

So, not yet for me. Certainly not at that price however good the riding experience is.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Polarbear]

[Polarbear]

Someone on here has got one if I remember right and Linuxyeti is an avid fan.

I'm sure they will happen simply because they will become compulsory as in the law makers will force people onto them especially in cities.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Sister Sledge]

Not had a go no but I'd like to - just to see.
The price is prohibitive but so is the lack of range. If they were half that price they'd make great commuters for shorter commutes.

Are the bikes not designed to be run stop start and not flat out running?
I'm sure that reviewers appear to gain more miles if they don't run them non-stop?
It all sounds odd and against the laws of physics but that's what it sounds like.
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CCM 404 DS

[ocatoro]

yeah I'm as sceptic as the next guy with electric stuff.

cars are nowhere near just on range alone. (though I'm yet to see one that doesn't have a branch of currys attached to it with various displays and touchy bits)

but bikes are getting to the range of a normal bike, so I think they have legs and are almost there.

don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these are perfect. and I don't have half of the answers. I just went along to the engagement day and had a go and a vague listen.

the charge times are weird. so on the normal bike, you get 2 inlets. both of which run off a domestic socket, I think. the one takes the hours like you've pointed out... but you can plug both in at the same time and shorten that time. (don't ask me how this system works, the fella just showed me it had 2 kettle leads you can use simultaneously)

with the fast charge one I believe it's a 6kw inlet, so with the little battery at 7, that's a bit over an hour. which is still a little rich but I'd live with that if I was into it because the range is similar to the big battery on the heavier bike. the 14 battery would be 2 and a bit hours it seems.

I'm still quite impressed a few weeks on and would be interested to do a longer term test ride to see what the real world figures were for range and charge time etc. and see what issues I'd run into, if any.

as a commuter, I think it's there. but still definitely room for improvement, as with all things. cost is the main factor. the cheapest is 9k iirc.
____________________
CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600

[ocatoro]

[Polarbear]

What makes them so bloody expensive? The battery?

Electric motors are cheap as chips. I doubt if the cycles parts are fancy materials like carbon fibre.

So why so expensive?
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[ocatoro]

[Arfa__]

I test rode the S ZF14.4 model at the MCN festival last weekend, just a quick 40 min blast, but still enlightening. As you say, this is supposed to be their 125 equivalent model, but it felt as though it had as much power as something like a CBF500 with way more torque.

Certainly handled ok, considering the skinny wheels, the test ride group weren't going mental, so never hit the limiter as such. But certainly had no hassle hitting 70-80 odd for the odd overtake. A perfectly fine ride. The lack of noise was disconcerting and something that would worry me filtering in the city. No clutch took a moment to get used to, can't rev the thing of course. Turn key, green light appears on dash, then oodles of torque ready on tap at your right hand wrist. There's wasn't much engine braking, which nearly caught me out, but I'm told this can be edited. There's a phone app with bunch of sliders to tweak the engine profile.

So, my take home verdict was:
As a commuter for blitzing into London everyday, it hits the mark fine. Range is ample to get to work and back and then slow charge with 13amp plug overnight (or even every other night). Plenty of range for a commute, even if hooking up heated clothes too.

Did discuss the battery warranty with chap on stand: 5 year warranty, where they'll guarantee they'll still perform to 80% of new for the 5 years. Their expectation was they would drop below 80% performance until the bikes done 250k odd - and let's face it, how many bikes last that long in general? So, that was certainly reassuring.

For longer distance excursions, it just doesn't work. Range at high speed drops dramatically. Charge times are too long, even with the extra fast charge add on in tank. Sorry, but I would never plan on sitting in a service station for 2 hours mid journey to get 95% full battery... And to do that every 100 miles odd, no thanks.

And then there's the cost. Even with the government grant contribution of £1.5k, we're still talking £12,245 for the basic S ZF14.4 and £14,745 for the more respectable SR/F. Then add on top extra for the power tank at £2-3k, and you've got a very expensive bike. £17-18k would buy you a hell of a lot of petrol bike. Or three CB500F's to keep you commuting for a bloody long time.

Then you have to do the sums on fill ups. The Zero literature suggests about £3 per charge, which if we're being optimistic with a 150 range, gives us £1 per 50 mile. Most petrol bikes average 50mpg. So 50 miles to 4.54 ltrs @ £1.30 ish, gives us £5.90 for 50 miles. OK, fair enough, about 1/6 of fuel costs. It does however mean your £12k S ZF14.4 will need to do 300k before it breaks even over your neighbour who's bought a CB500F at £6k... Sure, servicing costs should be cheaper with no filters, oil, plugs etc to replace.

So, one thing that did stand out when looking at the dealer sites and accessory catalogue for the £690 parking brake...
https://parts.streetbike.co.uk/product/zero-parking-brake-kit-2/?_ga=2.49295971.477632121.1558974914-1697639680.1558974914
What?! you ask, but with no gearbox, you obviously can't park it up in gear to stop it rolling down a hill! So you need this extra parking brake!
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Beginner Biker Adventures Blog
Yamaha FZ6 S2 2007

[Grubscrew]

And then the cold winter comes what’ll be the range then. It’s a fact my battery drill lasts longer in the warmer months.
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FJR1300/CBR1000F

[owl]

I tried for about two weeks with two different dealers to organise a test ride, none of them seemed interested, so I gave up.
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Observation is the greatest source of wisdom.

[suburban myth]

[wr6133]

They maybe good for urban commuters but in rural areas I think range is still a killer. I currently commute 80 miles a day, almost entirely NSL (and everyone does 70-80mph) so from polarbears figures that's me charging it every day. However if the one road I need to cut across the county is shut (happens at least twice a month) I then add a 30 mile detour. 110 miles with no option to stop and charge it.

Also the price is just fucking ridiculous.