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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay joining the ranks of "people who clearly know fuck all about science or the scientific method", right up there with mpd.

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mpd72
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Pjay joining the ranks of "people who clearly know fuck all about science or the scientific method", right up there with mpd.

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Or maybe we're not daft enough to fall for the propaganda without question, like you are? Middle Finger

How's the Ozone layer getting on? Acid rain? When did we run out of oil again?
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So that site provides links to data from respected sources, even NASA, but because it's not what you want to believe, it's made up?

I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all, but I do check them out for validation purposes and this climate change subject isn't as clear cut as we are led to believe.

I dont blame you for taking the media/governments side on this, it's being forced down our throats at ever opportunity, but the facts are there. Pretty much all of the data collected about climate change has been doctored to fit their narrative. The site I linked just shows the data we are not shown and it shows a very different story.

It's not like the site is just giving opinions, it give explanations and verifiable proof. It's fine if you dismiss it, most people do.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
Thing is, this stuff should be easy like:

"Hey! America! We know you like your cars but are V12 8 litre trucks really necessary to pick your kids up from school?!" But no, American trucks don't run on dinosaur juice they run on freedom, goddammit!



Yet 2.0 TDI Volkswagen's couldn't pass the Californian emissions test without cheating?

Maybe V8 petrol cars aren't the problem when it comes to killing people and the diesel engines flooding Europe (As they were pushed as being greener by governments with a vested interest) are? Idea
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The story so far:

As predicted, most ppl have shrugged at the A.I. thing with "not in my lifetime" or "I for one welcome our robot overlords."

Super-volcanoes are generally accepted as the kewl way to destroy civilisation.

No one is bothered about meteors since "Armageddon."

Everyone agreed we should stop being c*nts with the environment but nobody could agree on whether upgrading from Global Warming to Climate Change was a good thing.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://clivebest.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/UKTemps.png

Are you telling me, that we should all be worried?
It looks like nothing much is happening.

You can get all the stats you want, but if you look over a long enough timeline, you will see allsorts of peaks and troughs.

That low in 1740 for example, was that all because of our oil consumption or CO2 emissions? If it happened next year, what do you suppose the reason would be from the climate brigade?

The earth is heating up and has been since the end of the last ice age. It will reach a peak and then start to cool into another ice age. This is fact and it will happen.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:


Yes, its smaller than it was in the 50s but its growing. What part of that are you misunderstanding?


I'm not misunderstanding anything but you clearly are. Again from that article:

"The negative feedback of increasing rate of wintertime sea ice growth will help slow down the overall decline in Arctic sea ice. However, the seemingly inevitable ice-free Arctic will win out in the end, adds NASA." ]

Laughing


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mpd72
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


I'm not misunderstanding anything but you clearly are. Again from that article:

"The negative feedback of increasing rate of wintertime sea ice growth will help slow down the overall decline in Arctic sea ice. However, the seemingly inevitable ice-free Arctic will win out in the end, adds NASA."[url]

Laughing [/url]


I'm not sure you seem to be able to establish the difference between slowing down a decline and an increase.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Pjay joining the ranks of "people who clearly know fuck all about science or the scientific method", right up there with mpd.

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Or maybe we're not daft enough to fall for the propaganda without question, like you are? Middle Finger

How's the Ozone layer getting on? Acid rain? When did we run out of oil again?


The ban on the use of CFCs was starting to mitigate the ozone layer problems until China started emitting CFCs on a large scale. The problem still exists. Acid rain was largely dealt with by controlling the emissions from coal fired power stations.

Oil is a finite resource. The only reason we're still extracting it from ever harder to reach sources is because the global price has risen to make it economically viable. Even the largest oilfields are finite.

This is basic stuff really.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Pjay wrote:


Yes, its smaller than it was in the 50s but its growing. What part of that are you misunderstanding?


I'm not misunderstanding anything but you clearly are. Again from that article:

"The negative feedback of increasing rate of wintertime sea ice growth will help slow down the overall decline in Arctic sea ice. However, the seemingly inevitable ice-free Arctic will win out in the end, adds NASA."[url]

Laughing [/url]


Well quite, thats because the earth is natrually heating.
Here's another projection for the future:

Once the earth reaches its temperature peak, the temps will cool and the ice caps will reform until most of the globe is covered in ice.

Do you see how making comments on things can be done simply to make either side right?

The ice caps are growing, yet they will disappear, I agree with that. But they are growing.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Islander wrote:


I'm not misunderstanding anything but you clearly are. Again from that article:

"The negative feedback of increasing rate of wintertime sea ice growth will help slow down the overall decline in Arctic sea ice. However, the seemingly inevitable ice-free Arctic will win out in the end, adds NASA."[url]

Laughing [/url]


I'm not sure you seem to be able to establish the difference between slowing down a decline and an increase.


Oh I think I can. The article is about a natural feedback mechanism that slows the decline of arctic ice - slows not stops. The decline is inevitable unless there's a global intervention of course.

If you took the time to actually read and digest the data rather than resorting to dogma and avoidance, you'd see pretty much the same as me. [/i]
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Oh I think I can. The article is about a natural feedback mechanism that slows the decline of arctic ice - slows not stops. The decline is inevitable unless there's a global intervention of course.
[/i]


No, the decline is inevitable.
No intervention will stop it.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Islander wrote:


I'm not misunderstanding anything but you clearly are. Again from that article:

"The negative feedback of increasing rate of wintertime sea ice growth will help slow down the overall decline in Arctic sea ice. However, the seemingly inevitable ice-free Arctic will win out in the end, adds NASA."[url]

Laughing [/url]


Well quite, thats because the earth is natrually heating.
Here's another projection for the future:

Once the earth reaches its temperature peak, the temps will cool and the ice caps will reform until most of the globe is covered in ice.

Do you see how making comments on things can be done simply to make either side right?

The ice caps are growing, yet they will disappear, I agree with that. But they are growing.


Naturally heating? Not really, the GMST is affected by greenhouse gas emissions and the rate of change is accelerating. If this were due to natural emissions then yes, it could be described as natural but it's not. The only natural heating is that from solar energy and internally, from radioactive decay of Th232, K40 and U235.

Humanity has changed the carbon cycle significantly by releasing the carbon bound up in rocks over 300ma during the carboniferous in the form of fossil fuels.

You know what the biggest mistake was there? Not that the resources were removed for use, but the fact that we've wasted them by effectively setting fire to them in one way or another (which also had the somewhat unwanted side effect of increasing atmospheric CO2). It takes huge amounts of energy to form long chain organic molecules (carbon based) that are valuable feedstock for thousands of useful products from medicines to building materials. We squandered that resource and continue to do so.

Finally, overall, there's less sea ice each year that passes - that doesn't equate to growth.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Islander wrote:
Oh I think I can. The article is about a natural feedback mechanism that slows the decline of arctic ice - slows not stops. The decline is inevitable unless there's a global intervention of course.
[/i]


No, the decline is inevitable.
No intervention will stop it.


The data suggests otherwise.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Oh I think I can. The article is about a natural feedback mechanism that slows the decline of arctic ice - slows not stops. The decline is inevitable unless there's a global intervention of course.

If you took the time to actually read and digest the data rather than resorting to dogma and avoidance, you'd see pretty much the same as me. [/i]


Ah, so you're suggesting we start World War III to tackle climate change... "global intervention" sorta implies that Twisted Evil
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
The data suggests otherwise.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary

It's all part of the cycle our planet goes through. There will be another ice age on earth, with or without us.
Quite how you think we are going to stop something like this is beyond me, but crack on explaining.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
This is basic stuff really.

Apart from to those who actively don't want to know. They will just futilely stick themselves and be carried along, whingeing and slinging off contextual fallacies, to those with education and scientific minds. So what, really.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Islander wrote:
The data suggests otherwise.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary

It's all part of the cycle our planet goes through. There will be another ice age on earth, with or without us.
Quite how you think we are going to stop something like this is beyond me, but crack on explaining.


Ermmm I have a degree in geology. I understand the planetary cycles perfectly well along with stadials, glacials, interstadials and interglacials.

I'll say it again, it's the changing rate of change that is the problem here, not natural cycles caused by insolation.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


Ermmm I have a degree in geology.


Yeah but we've all had enough of experts. Armchair googlers are all we need now.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


The ban on the use of CFCs was starting to mitigate the ozone layer problems until China started emitting CFCs on a large scale. The problem still exists. Acid rain was largely dealt with by controlling the emissions from coal fired power stations.

Oil is a finite resource. The only reason we're still extracting it from ever harder to reach sources is because the global price has risen to make it economically viable. Even the largest oilfields are finite.

This is basic stuff really.


So the scientists were lying to us then.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:


Ermmm I have a degree in geology. I understand the planetary cycles perfectly well along with stadials, glacials, interstadials and interglacials.

.



What’s your profession then?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Islander wrote:


Ermmm I have a degree in geology. I understand the planetary cycles perfectly well along with stadials, glacials, interstadials and interglacials.

.



What’s your profession then?


What's the relevance?

FWIW I've stated my profession on here a number of times in the past.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Islander wrote:


The ban on the use of CFCs was starting to mitigate the ozone layer problems until China started emitting CFCs on a large scale. The problem still exists. Acid rain was largely dealt with by controlling the emissions from coal fired power stations.

Oil is a finite resource. The only reason we're still extracting it from ever harder to reach sources is because the global price has risen to make it economically viable. Even the largest oilfields are finite.

This is basic stuff really.


So the scientists were lying to us then.


Nope, as much as you'd like to spin it that way, they presented the data that was current at the time and continue to do so.

Science is funny like that, it works on empiricism and isn't afraid to change its mind when the data* requires it.

*That would be empirical data - not something someone once read on the Internet Wink
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
I have a degree in geology. I understand the planetary cycles perfectly well along with stadials, glacials, interstadials and interglacials.

I'll say it again, it's the changing rate of change that is the problem here, not natural cycles caused by insolation.


I dont care if you were a professor in Geology, you don't get to skirt around the point I'm making, by making new ones up and arguing with me about those.

I have stated the earth is warming naturally as part of it's cycle. You said it isn't, I disagree.

The rate isnt that much as I have shown, but you are choosing to ignore verifiable data.

Why hasn't anyone commented on that graph? It's easily verified, it shows that we have experienced worse and sharper rises and falls, it also shows everything is pretty much normal and as expected naturally. Now of course you can take a snapshot of the last decade and point to it being bad, but why not look at historical data that shows it happening hundreds of years ago with a recovery, all when there wasn't a this industrial revolution?

And just because you happen to have a degree in Geology, doesnt mean you get a pass on being right in every instance involving climate change. It doesn't work like that. Having a degree just means youve been assessed, that doesnt mean you are smarter than someone that hasn't been tested.
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