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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 29 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Venus has clouds, yes - of sulfuric acid and a very high albedo (0.75 compared to the Moon's 0.15) as evidenced by its appearance in our night sky. Its atmosphere is approx 96.5% CO2 with a surface pressure of 9.3MPa compared to Earth's 0.1MPa - much higher density. It has no liquid water and hence, no tectonics. Surface temperature is approx 460C.

It may have been Earth-like once but that would only have lasted for a very short time after the initial formation and bombarment. It hasn't had liquid water for approx 4 billion years.

It's a lot different to Earth and really not comparable in terms of process.


Don't forget the Sun used to chuck out less energy when it was younger so the window of "Earth-like liquid water features" might have been a lot longer than one might expect... several billion years possibly.

Anyhoo, surely it's easier to go "Venus is all CO2 now and that planet's fucked. Don't let Earth go the same way!" rather than get bogged down with details. Post-truth era and all that Wink

I did think it might make for a good Science Fiction story: in the future Earth is fucked (Mad Max style) and any sort of FTL drive fails to get invented. Someone does however invent a time machine and, to prevent causality issues, the remnants of humanity instead of escaping the Solar system in search of other planets instead escape back in time to when Venus didn't really need much in the way of terraforming.

The sequel will be about the inevitable collapse of the Venusian ecology and the survivors of humanity this time travel to the future and eek out their last days on Titan when the Sun enters the Red Giant stage.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 29 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:


Don't forget the Sun used to chuck out less energy when it was younger so the window of "Earth-like liquid water features" might have been a lot longer than one might expect... several billion years possibly.

Anyhoo, surely it's easier to go "Venus is all CO2 now and that planet's fucked. Don't let Earth go the same way!" rather than get bogged down with details. Post-truth era and all that Wink

I did think it might make for a good Science Fiction story: in the future Earth is fucked (Mad Max style) and any sort of FTL drive fails to get invented. Someone does however invent a time machine and, to prevent causality issues, the remnants of humanity instead of escaping the Solar system in search of other planets instead escape back in time to when Venus didn't really need much in the way of terraforming.

The sequel will be about the inevitable collapse of the Venusian ecology and the survivors of humanity this time travel to the future and eek out their last days on Titan when the Sun enters the Red Giant stage.


Nope. Standard estimates are that the runaway greenhouse effect occurred approx 4 billion years ago.

It could be an interesting story though...
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:57 - 30 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK then lots of varying arguments and scary stuff going on. Firstly it seems a Terminator ain't gonna get us.
I have a question: I'll be dead by 2050. What will Earth be like then if nothing is done to change our current abuse of the planet?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 30 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desertification, crop failures, water wars, mass human migration, coastal flooding. A lot of that has already started.

Can't remember what it was called, but a while ago I saw a documentary about a community in the USA where a load of old folk were talking about how when they were kids it was all just grass flatlands, and the sea was about 2km away. Now their houses are touching the shore, or are part submerged.

It's these small examples that show the reality for what it is. I think the problem is that everyone is expecting chaos overnight, but it won't be that. It'll be little things all over the world, with the odd big event which people dismiss as a 'one off' because they don't seem capable of connecting the dots.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 30 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

One question nobody has asked:

We are slowly destroying the planet (the only debate, for me, is the pace) why should we change? Put it another way: human beings are crap so maybe it would be better to hasten the end than try to avoid it.

"But what about all the little furry animals and plants and fish and stuff?!" Fuck 'em, we'll all be dead. God isn't watching, what does it matter? Something will survive beyond us. We should move over and let the rats or cockroaches have a turn.

If you were to say to random ppl:

"The planet is dying! We need to do something?!"

Barring a few psychopaths most ppl will generally agree. If however you say:

"The planet is dying! You need to do something!"

Err, like what?

"Give up your cars, your meat, your synthetic fibres and medicines. Everyone has to go back to a pre-industrial agrarian society where we all toil in the fields..."

Yes, good luck with that! Secretly most people don't mind going to hell in a handcart if the "handcart" has aircon and a decent sound system Sad
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 30 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
One question nobody has asked:

We are slowly destroying the planet (the only debate, for me, is the pace) why should we change? Put it another way: human beings are crap so maybe it would be better to hasten the end than try to avoid it.

"But what about all the little furry animals and plants and fish and stuff?!" Fuck 'em, we'll all be dead. God isn't watching, what does it matter? Something will survive beyond us. We should move over and let the rats or cockroaches have a turn.

If you were to say to random ppl:

"The planet is dying! We need to do something?!"

Barring a few psychopaths most ppl will generally agree. If however you say:

"The planet is dying! You need to do something!"

Err, like what?

"Give up your cars, your meat, your synthetic fibres and medicines. Everyone has to go back to a pre-industrial agrarian society where we all toil in the fields..."

Yes, good luck with that! Secretly most people don't mind going to hell in a handcart if the "handcart" has aircon and a decent sound system Sad


Or you can take my stance and say that the planet isn't dying at all, it will still be here in 100 million years.

Humans may not be, but the planet doesn't care.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 30 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Or you can take my stance and say that the planet isn't dying at all, it will still be here in 100 million years.

Humans may not be, but the planet doesn't care.


Indeed... what would you rather have: a short glorious life - knee deep in hookers and gin or something long on misery, hair shirts and a best sellers list full of vegan cookery books?

There should be monument to humanity constructed designed to last a billion years. And the epitaph?

Quote:
If you're reading this you didn't party hard enough!

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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 30 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

HardlyDavidson wrote:
what would you rather have: a short glorious life - knee deep in hookers and gin

No, thank you.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:42 - 01 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
HardlyDavidson wrote:
what would you rather have: a short glorious life - knee deep in hookers and gin

No, thank you.


Each to his own, B Ark for you I'm afraid Wink
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 02:40 - 01 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
HardlyDavidson wrote:
what would you rather have: a short glorious life - knee deep in hookers and gin

No, thank you.


What would you have then?

Hookers and gin sounds good to me. Where do I sign up. Dance!
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:12 - 01 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Male hookers and gin - their sex wasn't stated.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 02 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Male hookers and gin - their sex wasn't stated.


Buyer's choice Wink
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:31 - 02 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buyers choice?
Please - tell me more. You seem very clued up about hookers. Is this from experience or from good research??
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 02 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd literally rather drink my own piss than drink gin.

But hookers sound good to me.*

* as long as they are the high class blond russia type and not the scabby crack addled ones
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 02:46 - 06 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just discovered the Taurid meteor stream. The Earth passes through its path twice a year. That's it. We've had it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9So2SfJzE8

Very recent and apt:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjyz-m-8p7jAhXUOcAKHRU2AFMQuAIITzAJ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnPOlomFhehQ&usg=AOvVaw0tlkWA0cfN5H0paTAv8tCy
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 27 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get ridiculed here for stating my opinons on climate change and how I believe it's not that un-natural to have deviations in temperatures.

Mostly people state that I know nothing and that I am not qualified (or smart enough) to know.

Well I read and I read a lot. I might not have the requisite qualifications to please the jury here, but I do stand by my opinions.

I would like to bring this document to the attention of the people that say I am not qualified to comment:

https://www.opinione.it/cultura/2019/06/19/redazione_riscaldamento-globale-antropico-clima-inquinamento-uberto-crescenti-antonino-zichichi/?altTemplate=Stampa&fbclid=IwAR1YAoqulAKKXJTY-uzRfSEaX-G6NRpVOckp3nVE7iiTAgOQu8DMHGUxRnE

These scientists are all very qualified and share my views.

We are being scammed into paying more in taxes and charges (ULEZ) (Congestion Charge) (Flight Tax) to bolster the coffers of governments and we suck it up.

Please dont bother arguing with me on this but feel free to contact the scientists that signed that document and tell them how you know better and that they are wrong.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 27 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect there is some truth on both sides of the argument.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:30 - 28 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ULEZ is a attempt at dealing with a more immediate pollution issue in London and that's asthmatic kittens choking on diesel fumes Crying or Very sad

However I totally agree that what may be a very real climate crisis has been twisted into a money spinning business (carbon credits) and a way of keeping poor people poor (especially in the Third World.)
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 09:07 - 28 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

And again another reason to post this map - a live pollution map of the UK. Notice how London has those same levels of choking fumes as the desolate remote areas of Northumberland??
Of course it's a tax on people.

https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/forecasting/locations?q=Hackney%2C+London
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 28 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Please dont bother arguing with me on this but feel free to contact the scientists that signed that document and tell them how you know better and that they are wrong.

https://i.imgur.com/hH5Wy0C.gif
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 28 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh aye. What happened to her? Gone quiet these days.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 28 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Easy-X wrote:

However I totally agree that what may be a very real climate crisis has been twisted into a money spinning business (carbon credits) and a way of keeping poor people poor (especially in the Third World.)


Eh? What carbon taxes do people in the poorest Third World countries pay?

The scam to me, seems to be to tax and control people in First World, mainly Western countries, where taxation is big business.


Sorry, I didn't mean to conflate the two things! To be clear I meant there's a whole business in the West revolving around carbon credits trading, offsets and all sorts of other clever financial instruments clothed in "save the planet" woven hemp rags but in reality just another stock market scam.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 28 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try zooming into Teesside mpd - especially around Wilton (between Eston and Redcar). They don't call Teessiders smoggies for nothing..
The map isn't broken - you can check for other pollutants too via a menu.
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