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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wonder if that little crowdfunding tw@t realised he'd make Boris more popular. He must be so proud.

Maybe he can crowdfund another ballot to have the decision reversed?

When's he being prosecuted for keeping half the money anyway?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Wonder if that little crowdfunding tw@t realised he'd make Boris more popular. He must be so proud.

Maybe he can crowdfund another ballot to have the decision reversed?

When's he being prosecuted for keeping half the money anyway?


The people who get behind Johnson because he is attacked are misguided, and are likely to be disappointed.

I do the same. People attack Brexit, which I want (as things stand), so I have a tendency to become entrenched. So I go back to the reasons I want Brexit.

Too easy to lose sight of the goal, and more importantly, the reasons for having that goal.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think he deserves a chance.

As I said, he had the balls to back Leave when very few others felt it had a chance. I think he'll be able to stand up to the EU rather than just dither.

I reckon he'd either be very good or absolutely bloody awful (see have I got news for you for Boris bashing).

Mind you, no doubt all the haters are delving into the internet and something will come out, like he was sleeping with horses or something.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
I think he deserves a chance.

As I said, he had the balls to back Leave when very few others felt it had a chance. I think he'll be able to stand up to the EU rather than just dither.

I reckon he'd either be very good or absolutely bloody awful (see have I got news for you for Boris bashing).



I think there are some things he'd be good at, and some he'd fail miserably at. Like putting him in charge at the Foreign Office - I never thought that was a good idea. He's someone who perhaps could be a driving force behind the scenes, but not up front delivering the message.

But then, there seem to be few, if any, who are suited to that front line position at the moment. And that's even if you ignore all the slandering and mud-throwing that confuses the issues. We just don't seem to be producing the people with real calibre, not in politics anyway.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:

I think there are some things he'd be good at, and some he'd fail miserably at. Like putting him in charge at the Foreign Office - I never thought that was a good idea. He's someone who perhaps could be a driving force behind the scenes, but not up front delivering the message.

But then, there seem to be few, if any, who are suited to that front line position at the moment. And that's even if you ignore all the slandering and mud-throwing that confuses the issues. We just don't seem to be producing the people with real calibre, not in politics anyway.


I'd be fascinated to see how he performs at the dispatch box, especially during PMQ's.

I also think Johnson of the F.O. was a bad idea, because I reckon he never wanted that gig and wasn't too careful about buggering it up and getting kicked out, but that was the highest profile job May was prepared to give him, in return for bailing on the last leadership election.

It will be interesting to see, now the voters have shown their hand, how many of the defeated and no chancers pull out and urge their supporters to coalesce around Hunt and/or Gove, or back Boris.

As for beyond brexit, BoJo is a dangerous man to underestimate, he's not the bumbling fuckwit a lot of people think he is, but I'm still 50/50 on whether or not he proves himself the statesman he thinks he might be.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:
BoJo...the statesman he thinks he might be.


But he isn't Churchill! Laughing
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:
Shaft wrote:
BoJo...the statesman he thinks he might be.


But he isn't Churchill! Laughing


Actually, he's not that far removed.

They come from quite similar backgrounds.

In their earlier days, both said things they would rather they hadn't and made some very bad decisions, while showing themselves to be 'of the people'.

Churchill learned from his mistakes, built very good teams behind him and became a better politician as a result.

Boris could do the same, time will tell.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:

In their earlier days, both said things they would rather they hadn't and made some very bad decisions, while showing themselves to be 'of the people'.


I think it's a bit of a stretch to say either were/are "of the people", but I guess that still points to a similarity between them.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 09:28 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:
chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:


But he isn't Churchill! Laughing


Actually, he's not that far removed.


The extent of similarities is that they were born on the same planet.

Churchill frequently exhibited professional integrity, politeness, willingness to take a career hit for the good of the country, and capacity to relinquish silly nationalism.

BJ ever reaching his level is as likely as... damnation, even metaphors that can connect the two are hard to find.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Churchill had his demons. In my opinion he was the finest prime minister we ever had. Had it been Halifax who had taken over in 1940 we'd be speaking Deutsch right now.
Churchill was a blatant alcoholic, and suffered badly from depression. But still he was able to make us proud to be British.
I'd rather a prime minister who was human, with human weaknesses, rather than the plastic replicas which have come off the production line lately (Blair, Cameron, etc.)
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
Churchill had his demons. In my opinion he was the finest prime minister we ever had. Had it been Halifax who had taken over in 1940 we'd be speaking Deutsch right now.
Churchill was a blatant alcoholic, and suffered badly from depression. But still he was able to make us proud to be British.
I'd rather a prime minister who was human, with human weaknesses, rather than the plastic replicas which have come off the production line lately (Blair, Cameron, etc.)


I agree, he was a man for his time and the best person we had to lead the country during the war. In terms of failings, you forgot to add Gallipoli and the fact that he didn't believe in a welfare state when we needed one most.

The only similarities between Johnson and Churchill are privileged upbringings and ease of caricature. Churchill was fighting fuzzy-wuzzies as a young man, whereas Johnson was watching his mate shagging a pig's head.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Churchill was a poor peacetime Prime Minister but a bloody good wartime one.

To a much lesser extent the same can be said about Thatcher, if you take out her Falklands victory the rest of her premiership was nasty, confrontational, vindictive and almost megalomanic by the time she was booted out.

But the Falklands victory got her a state funeral.

The reason I mention her because she would have made a good PM at this time because she liked confrontation, as do most good wartime leaders.

But, I know, talking about her in the same breath a talking about Churchill is an insult to the great man.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
To a much lesser extent the same can be said about Thatcher, if you take out her Falklands victory the rest of her premiership was nasty, confrontational, vindictive and almost megalomanic by the time she was booted out.



Thatcher was the last great leader of our country, she turned a shithole being run into the ground by unions into the great country it is today.

Oh yeah she closed down the coal mines! The horror!
Forward thinking and smart is what I would call her. Can you imagine the coal mines being worked today? Of course not, she knew they were on borrowed time and fucked them off. Coal was never a fuel of the future and she was brutal enough execute their demise. Tell me another leader that would have had the balls to do that?
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs is right. After the Gallipoli failure Churchill descended into severe depression.
That means he was human.
In the 1930's he had a doctor's note to take alcohol into the US (where prohibition reigned). During that decade he warned against Hitler but was largely ignored.
I think his major failing was rejecting the welfare state, but this should be support, not a choice of lifestyle.
Thatcher? Well you loved her or you hated her, I agree after 1987 she went a bit potato with the pole tax, but prior to that she was strong against the IRA, and also the Falklands. If St. Blair had been in charge in 1982 we'd have given them to the Argies, purely because the yanks wouldn't support us.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's why I said she would be a good PM to have now. Junkers and Co. wouldn't know what hit them.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
That's why I said she would be a good PM to have now. Junkers and Co. wouldn't know what hit them.


Having seen BJ as FM they're quite prepared to deal with staggering amounts of incompetence. They won't be surprised at all.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:


Having seen BJ as FM they're quite prepared to deal with staggering amounts of incompetence. They won't be surprised at all.


Such as? Or it one of those made up things where we just have to believe you again?


Such as this: https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1139067505094402049
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
That's why I said she would be a good PM to have now. Junkers and Co. wouldn't know what hit them.


Having seen BJ as FM they're quite prepared to deal with staggering amounts of incompetence. They won't be surprised at all.


I was talking about Thatcher.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
mpd72 wrote:


Such as? Or it one of those made up things where we just have to believe you again?


Such as this: https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/1139067505094402049


Unprovable shite from a remainer. Now where have I heard that before Thinking
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like I'm even going to look at anything on twatter.
Mind you, Trump uses it, so it must be true Laughing
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

I was talking about Thatcher.


Ah yes. Now there’s no indication that we’d see any belligerence in her relationship with EU, not to mention no deal tantrums. Hell, there wouldn’t be any brexit at all.
The reason is that Thatcher was very pragmatic, making very informed decisions whether to fight (Falklands) or flee (Hong Kong), and not letting flag waving get into the way of progress (Hillsborough agreement).
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 14 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
The reason is that Thatcher was very pragmatic, making very informed decisions whether to fight (Falklands) or flee (Hong Kong)


What on earth do you think the similarity between those places and circumstances is? Don't be so ridiculous.
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