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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:


No, most things said in 'Project Fear' were given as opinion on what may happen, i.e. speculation and shoe-gazing, rather than fact


You'd make a good politician Wink Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a gross figure it was correct though, wasn't it?
Quote:
350 million is roughly what we would send to the EU budget if it wasnt for the UKs budget rebate.

https://fullfact.org/europe/350-million-week-boris-johnson-statistics-authority-misuse/

We're charged but no, we don't send it all. It's a bit like being told my salary is X grand when that's not what I take home.

I don't recall Remain or the media providing facts to contradict the original claim until after the referendum. Rolling Eyes Maybe I'll crowdfund-sue them for misinformation and uselessness.

In addition, whilst we're a net contributor everyone knew money was returned to us in the form of EU-selected funding. Those in the know still said Leave.

The bus has become a Remainer meme, that's all.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
.....most things said in 'Project Fear' were given as opinion on what may happen, i.e. speculation and shoe-gazing, rather than fact as per BJ's 350 billion. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, Boris blatantly lied to gain political advantage and our legal system effectively condoned it.

What a crock of shit.
I seem to recall The governor of The Bank of England stating that The Pound would fall out of it's own arse, The Chancellor of the Exchequer stating that an emergency budget would be implemented, The CBI....Etc, etc.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Doesn't matter how you dress it up, Boris blatantly lied to gain political advantage and our legal system effectively condoned it.


Perhaps you will explain in what way "our legal system effectively condoned it".
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Diggs wrote:
Doesn't matter how you dress it up, Boris blatantly lied to gain political advantage and our legal system effectively condoned it.


Perhaps you will explain in what way "our legal system effectively condoned it".


Our legal system condoned it by deciding that Boris had no case to answer, because it was done during an ongoing public debate on the matter and that the actual figures were already in the public domain. What that means is a politician can tell the public whatever he/she wants in order to win support even if he/she knows it isn't true, provided there is a debate going on at the time, and that in the hope that the public doesn't scrutinise what has been said. This moves our relationship with our politicians from one of trust (yeah yeah...) to one of 'buyer beware', and if said politician tells lies in this context, our legal system won't prosecute. It makes the thing we dislike the most about politicians (lying) something they can't be challenged on.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs...NOTHING HAS CHANGED! Rolling Eyes
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If courts are going to lock up politicians for bulls#iting in campaigns then the whole of Parliament would have to be moved to Pentonville!
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:
Diggs...NOTHING HAS CHANGED! Rolling Eyes


Especially the 'buyer beware' bit of Diggs' diatribe.

This is the thing that gives the lie to the 'leavers didn't know what they were voting for' nonsense - those that had already made their minds up were lost to the remain cause, those that needed to find out more did their research.

We live in an age where it's never been easier to find out stuff, a few mouse clicks and you have everything at your fingertips, from both sides of an argument.

The very idea that leavers were in some sort of uneducated darkness is not only wrong, it's also deeply offensive and extraordinarily patronising.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:


The very idea that leavers were in some sort of uneducated darkness is not only wrong, it's also deeply offensive and extraordinarily patronising.


What I don't get about it is that Remainers know this, they know it won't bring anyone round to their view but will more likely entrench the desire to leave the EU just to be bloody-minded on top of wanting out for good reason, and yet they still do it. So what's the deal? What do they think they will achieve by it? Or are they even more stupid than they say Leave voters are? Surely it has to be drugs?
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 07:50 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:
Diggs...NOTHING HAS CHANGED! Rolling Eyes


Especially the 'buyer beware' bit of Diggs' diatribe.

This is the thing that gives the lie to the 'leavers didn't know what they were voting for' nonsense - those that had already made their minds up were lost to the remain cause, those that needed to find out more did their research.

We live in an age where it's never been easier to find out stuff, a few mouse clicks and you have everything at your fingertips, from both sides of an argument.

The very idea that leavers were in some sort of uneducated darkness is not only wrong, it's also deeply offensive and extraordinarily patronising.


But the problem is, not every single person who votes has the inclination to do research, it can be 'hurrrr durrrr send the immigrants back' as much as the 'my grandads sisters budgie voted Labour so I'll vote Labour'. We are far too trusting that people have the brains to vote rationally.

And that's from someone who voted leave, before the remainder insults start.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 09:11 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jewlio Rides Again LLB wrote:
Shaft wrote:

Especially the 'buyer beware' bit of Diggs' diatribe.

This is the thing that gives the lie to the 'leavers didn't know what they were voting for' nonsense - those that had already made their minds up were lost to the remain cause, those that needed to find out more did their research.

We live in an age where it's never been easier to find out stuff, a few mouse clicks and you have everything at your fingertips, from both sides of an argument.

The very idea that leavers were in some sort of uneducated darkness is not only wrong, it's also deeply offensive and extraordinarily patronising.


But the problem is, not every single person who votes has the inclination to do research, it can be 'hurrrr durrrr send the immigrants back' as much as the 'my grandads sisters budgie voted Labour so I'll vote Labour'. We are far too trusting that people have the brains to vote rationally.

And that's from someone who voted leave, before the remainder insults start.


From the people I've spoken to (in real life, not on t'internet) that applies far more to remainers than leavers.

Remaining is the easy option, typical of the UK conservative mindset, don't rock the boat, maintain the status quo and just rub along like we always have, even if that means things are a bit shit.

Leaving requires thinking outside the box, weighing up the pros and cons and deciding, on balance, it's worth the effort to take the path less travelled.

Pretty much all the leavers I know (and that's virtually everybody) has spent time looking at the options, whereas the remainers just regurgitate the same tired old tales of woe, having never bothered to find out what might happen if we do things differently.

It's no wonder all the high ups were mortified we voted to leave, that's not normally what we do and they must've thought they were on to a stone cold winner, which is why they are now so vociferous in their condemnation of leave voters - making leave happen requires them taking their snouts out of the trough and actually working for a living.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Perhaps you will explain in what way "our legal system effectively condoned it".

Our legal system condoned it by deciding that Boris had no case to answer, because it was done during an ongoing public debate on the matter and that the actual figures were already in the public domain.


The High Court said that it would give the detailed reasons for throwing out the case at a later date. It seems that you are jumping to conclusions.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:


The High Court said that it would give the detailed reasons for throwing out the case at a later date. It seems that you are jumping to conclusions.


That was the beak's synopsis.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:


The very idea that leavers were in some sort of uneducated darkness is not only wrong, it's also deeply offensive and extraordinarily patronising.


I'm not saying that at all. This is a matter of what can be said as a blatant lie for political gain without having to worry about any legal comeback. To me it makes no difference which side of the debate the particular politician was on (although it clearly did to the bloke who instigated the action), it is the principle of the thing. Guessing and supposition are one thing, but being blatantly lied to is something else...
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
Shaft wrote:


The very idea that leavers were in some sort of uneducated darkness is not only wrong, it's also deeply offensive and extraordinarily patronising.


I'm not saying that at all. This is a matter of what can be said as a blatant lie for political gain without having to worry about any legal comeback. To me it makes no difference which side of the debate the particular politician was on (although it clearly did to the bloke who instigated the action), it is the principle of the thing. Guessing and supposition are one thing, but being blatantly lied to is something else...


Yep, you're right, the 350M was a lie - in the full year previous to the referendum (2015) our gross contributions to the EU worked out at 376M per week, so the bus logo undershot that by 26M Wink

But it's not for the courts to decide which set of statistics are correct, 3 years after the event, that's the job of the opposing side of the campaign.

The big issue for remainers is that their campaigners clearly did a poor job of disputing that number and they've been bitching and whining about it eversince.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure it's the most important issue in the history of the world though. It has ruined countless billions of lives. Something oughta be done! Crying or Very sad
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I'm not saying that at all. This is a matter of what can be said as a blatant lie for political gain without having to worry about any legal comeback. To me it makes no difference which side of the debate the particular politician was on (although it clearly did to the bloke who instigated the action), it is the principle of the thing. Guessing and supposition are one thing, but being blatantly lied to is something else...


What about those who believed we would leave as voted for, on March 29th, who have been blatantly lied to?
I'm talking politicians who got elected in the GE stating they would implement the public vote. Those who said Brexit means Brexit, no deal is better than a bad deal, we WILL leave on March 29th etc etc.
This is not conjecture or shoe gazing, these are stated facts, which have been proven to be lies.
If you're going to persecute Boris, you treat the others the same (provided you can get enough crowd funding).
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:06 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little something for all those whiny Remainers, and especially for Diggs over this awful case:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/07/08/71/0708719d6fe2fb9063e66f3b24f5087c.jpg

No need to thank me Smile
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:


But it's not for the courts to decide which set of statistics are correct


You too are correct, and the courts didn't decide that. What the beak did was decide that Boris hadn't committed an offence because he merely presented a figure to the electorate during a political debate, a figure that could be disputed by reference to information already in the public realm. Boris could have said that chips are made of dogshit provided there was already a debate going on about the subject.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:


What about those who believed we would leave as voted for, on March 29th, who have been blatantly lied to?
I'm talking politicians who got elected in the GE stating they would implement the public vote. Those who said Brexit means Brexit, no deal is better than a bad deal, we WILL leave on March 29th etc etc.
This is not conjecture or shoe gazing, these are stated facts, which have been proven to be lies.
If you're going to persecute Boris, you treat the others the same (provided you can get enough crowd funding).


Seems fair enough to me. I'm sure that if it were possible within the law someone would have tried it already. I imagine the defence would be that they did try, but Parliament collectively wouldn't vote it through.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip YFPOS wrote:
A little something for all those whiny Remainers, and especially for Diggs over this awful case:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/07/08/71/0708719d6fe2fb9063e66f3b24f5087c.jpg

No need to thank me Smile


Why thank you. I'm feeling better already Laughing Laughing Laughing
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't seem to have harmed his chances. Just pissed the first round with 113 votes.

The only candidate who was pushing for a proper Brexit, came last.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48624579
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Doesn't seem to have harmed his chances. Just pissed the first round with 113 votes.

The only candidate who was pushing for a proper Brexit, came last.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48624579


I imagine he's teflon due to his 'blundering fool' persona.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

mpd72 wrote:
Doesn't seem to have harmed his chances. Just pissed the first round with 113 votes.

The only candidate who was pushing for a proper Brexit, came last.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48624579


Eh? What/who do you mean? Esther Wub

She can console herself with me if she wants.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 13 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Eh? What/who do you mean? Esther Wub

She can console herself with me if she wants.


I know who's ballot-box I'd rather spend time at....
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