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Kawasaki GT 550 Tapping noise ?

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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 03 Jun 2019    Post subject: Kawasaki GT 550 Tapping noise ? Reply with quote
Hey guys

I’ve just got this bike started, I was about to move on to tuning the carbs but I noticed this tapping sound. I was wondering if one of you guys knew what it was.

Help greatly appreciated
Cheers
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 03 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Valve clearances?
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doggone
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 03 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Could it be blowing through one of the exhaust gaskets?
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Robby
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 03 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is there any oil in the top end? Sounds unhealthy.

Otherwise, hard to tell from a video. A metallic ticking noise is what you get from exhaust gaskets, and a lot of people instantly think its the cam chain when they hear it. Exhaust gaskets are easier and cheaper to change.

Seems to take a lot of work to make it start. What is the general condition of the engine?
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 04 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
HardlyDavidson wrote:
Valve clearances?


They’re all perfect, just adjusted them.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 04 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
Could it be blowing through one of the exhaust gaskets?


Hmm, never thought of that. I’ll give that a check tomorrow
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 04 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Is there any oil in the top end? Sounds unhealthy.

Otherwise, hard to tell from a video. A metallic ticking noise is what you get from exhaust gaskets, and a lot of people instantly think its the cam chain when they hear it. Exhaust gaskets are easier and cheaper to change.

Seems to take a lot of work to make it start. What is the general condition of the engine?


I’m gonna take a look at the exhaust gaskets tomorrow.
I’ve just had it apart and it had new piston rings in cylinder 4, gaskets, head, and a few other bits. I was hoping I wouldn’t have to take it apart again, the exhaust and carbs are real tedious to get on and off.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 04 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Check:
1) Cam chain
2) Valve timing


Cam chain is what I'd expect. Have you missed something out? There is a cam chain guide in the valve cover, and it's a necessary part of the tensioning system for the cam chain. It has to be there.

What's more, when you put the cam cover back on, the spring inside the cam chain tensioner must be out. If you don't do this, then it clicks another notch or two while you're turning the cams over via the crank, and then when you put the cam cover back on top, that upper cam chain guide exerts even more pressure on the already-tensioned cam chain, resulting in a super-tight cam chain that's rubbing hard against that upper cam chain guide (bad).

Quote:
the exhaust and carbs are real tedious to get on and off.


Tell me about it...
You may as well order new carb holders so the rubber is softer, making the carbs easier to get on and off.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 04 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
Check:
1) Cam chain
2) Valve timing


Cam chain is what I'd expect. Have you missed something out? There is a cam chain guide in the valve cover, and it's a necessary part of the tensioning system for the cam chain. It has to be there.

What's more, when you put the cam cover back on, the spring inside the cam chain tensioner must be out. If you don't do this, then it clicks another notch or two while you're turning the cams over via the crank, and then when you put the cam cover back on top, that upper cam chain guide exerts even more pressure on the already-tensioned cam chain, resulting in a super-tight cam chain that's rubbing hard against that upper cam chain guide (bad).


Tell me about it...
You may as well order new carb holders so the rubber is softer, making the carbs easier to get on and off.


The timing is fine and the guide in the cover is present. I did indeed put the cam chain tensioner in before the cover. I’ll sort that out now but I’m guessing that couldn’t have cause the noise.

The carbs rubbers are fine it’s just getting the ones on the air box onto the carb mouths that’s difficult. The air box can’t move further back to give it space.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 04 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jay2903 wrote:

The timing is fine and the guide in the cover is present. I did indeed put the cam chain tensioner in before the cover.


That's good. I had that clanking top end noise during my restoration, and it was because my cam cover wasn't bolted down properly, and oil was pissing out of the side. In addition, I had massive holes in my exhaust at the time. I'm sure your issue will be either top end or exhaust. Putting your hand around the exhaust gaskets, you may be able to feel one of them blowing. Tightening the exhaust manifold nuts a bit will help to diagnose if that's the issue.

Quote:
The carbs rubbers are fine it’s just getting the ones on the air box onto the carb mouths that’s difficult. The air box can’t move further back to give it space.


The airbox moves back a little when you undo about 4 bolts. If you remove your side cover panels and stare at it, you'll see which ones are holding the airbox forward. 2 of them are attached to steel angle brackets IIRC.

What I ended up doing with mine was discarding the springs that hold the airbox rubbers onto the carbs. Then wiggled the airbox until the rubbers slid over the carbs' intakes, and attached Jubilee Light clips to hold them on tightly.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 05 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:


That's good. I had that clanking top end noise during my restoration, and it was because my cam cover wasn't bolted down properly, and oil was pissing out of the side. In addition, I had massive holes in my exhaust at the time. I'm sure your issue will be either top end or exhaust. Putting your hand around the exhaust gaskets, you may be able to feel one of them blowing. Tightening the exhaust manifold nuts a bit will help to diagnose if that's the issue.

The airbox moves back a little when you undo about 4 bolts. If you remove your side cover panels and stare at it, you'll see which ones are holding the airbox forward. 2 of them are attached to steel angle brackets IIRC.

What I ended up doing with mine was discarding the springs that hold the airbox rubbers onto the carbs. Then wiggled the airbox until the rubbers slid over the carbs' intakes, and attached Jubilee Light clips to hold them on tightly.


I think something was up with the exhaust collars so I’ve ordered some new ones. I’ve used jubilee clips too
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 05 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
One more thing, I tried to get the bike to idle at a reasonable speed, it’s up at like 3.5k at the moment. The idle speed screw is all the way out already. Does that mean I’ll have to adjust the pilot screws ? I set them at 2 turns out which is in the middle of the recommended range.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 05 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are the four domed rubber covers over the balance spigots of the carbs/airbox connector all still there?

One fell off on my GPz750 once whilst I was sitting at traffic lights and I thought a VW Beetle had pulled up behind me.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 05 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jay2903 wrote:
One more thing, I tried to get the bike to idle at a reasonable speed, it’s up at like 3.5k at the moment. The idle speed screw is all the way out already. Does that mean I’ll have to adjust the pilot screws ? I set them at 2 turns out which is in the middle of the recommended range.


It isn't correctly set up. If you wind out the idle screw all the way it will just stop. When the carbs are correctly set up and clean, you can use the idle speed screw to get it idle steadily at around 1k to 1.2k rpm.

Different carbs were fitted to different model years of the GT550. The early ones (like mine) have TK26, which use brass-tipped float needles. These must be kept spotless, or they don't seat properly and they let lots of fuel through even when the float is floating. Even when they're good, they let fuel through.

Whichever model of carb you have, I suspect that if your idle speed screw is all the way out but the engine runs ("idles") at 3.5k rpm, there is a problem with either your choke or float needles. Make sure your choke plunger is pushed all the way in. With the choke all the way in and the idle speed screw all the way out, the bike shouldn't idle at all. If it does, then look closely at your bank of carbs and make sure that the choke rod is shutting off each and every choke circuit on every carb completely.

Have you completely cleaned out your carbs? If it's still on your "to do" list, then I recommend getting a big box of Ebay petrol resistant rubber seals in metric sizes, because when you separate them, all the rubbers will come crumbling apart. Plus, you can get cheap carb rebuild kits on Ebay. They are almost completely useless but you are likely to need those things that seat the float needle.

The mixture settings (2 turns out each) are fine - come back to them when the bike's running properly. For now clean the carbs, set the float levels correctly and get a rough carb sync by setting them all to factory level on the bench. It will be enough to get it running correctly, then you can do a proper synchronisation and mixture tuning later.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 05 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:


It isn't correctly set up. If you wind out the idle screw all the way it will just stop. When the carbs are correctly set up and clean, you can use the idle speed screw to get it idle steadily at around 1k to 1.2k rpm.

Different carbs were fitted to different model years of the GT550. The early ones (like mine) have TK26, which use brass-tipped float needles. These must be kept spotless, or they don't seat properly and they let lots of fuel through even when the float is floating. Even when they're good, they let fuel through.

Whichever model of carb you have, I suspect that if your idle speed screw is all the way out but the engine runs ("idles") at 3.5k rpm, there is a problem with either your choke or float needles. Make sure your choke plunger is pushed all the way in. With the choke all the way in and the idle speed screw all the way out, the bike shouldn't run at all. If it does, then look closely at your bank of carbs and make sure that the choke rod is shutting off each and every choke circuit on every carb completely.

Have you completely cleaned out your carbs? If it's still on your "to do" list, then I recommend getting a big box of Ebay petrol resistant rubber seals in metric sizes, because when you separate them, all the rubbers will come crumbling apart. Plus, you can get cheap carb rebuild kits on Ebay. They are almost completely useless but you are likely to need those things that seat the float needle.

The mixture settings (2 turns out each) are fine - come back to them when the bike's running properly. For now clean the carbs, set the float levels correctly and get a rough carb sync by setting them all to factory level on the bench. It will be enough to get it running correctly, then you can do a proper synchronisation and mixture tuning later.


Yea I cleaned the carbs and set the pilots screws when I had them off, the choke plungers are all functioning fine. The choke is off (pushed in) when it’s at the 3.5k idle. It’s a G9 with the Keihin carbs.
I thought screwing in those pilots screws a tad would drop the idle sufficiently ?
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 05 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
yen_powell wrote:
Are the four domed rubber covers over the balance spigots of the carbs/airbox connector all still there?

One fell off on my GPz750 once whilst I was sitting at traffic lights and I thought a VW Beetle had pulled up behind me.


Yea 3/4 of them are. I believe the one on carb 2 connects to the vacuum fuel tap.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: gt550 Reply with quote
That did not sound tooo healthy Jay, especially towards the end of the vid before you turned the engine off!!

So re check, you did follow the cam chain refitting, droop, and cam chain tensioning procedure TO THE LETTER?? As you know the cam cover is more than that as the rubber spreader ( for cam chain droop ) is involved.......

Remember you can always prime the carbs before starting, and you know of the balancing bungs ( yes one for the tank vacc tap ) .

You have checked for oil up to the cams?? and pre oiled then on engine assembly???
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Robby
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy things before you tear it apart looking for problems.

Clicky tappy noise - sort the exhaust gaskets before pulling anything else apart. I would buy two sets, because they're cheap but always seem to take ages to turn up in the post. Good to have a set for the next time you need to take the exhaust off.

High idle - check the throttle cable free play first, in case that is holding the throttle open. Then look for missing covers on the carb balancing ports. If those are fine, then check the balancing on the carbs, particularly if you had the carb bank apart to clean them. You might have two carbs with closed throttles and two a bit open.
Only then would I look at float heights and needle settings, or a carb piston put in the wrong way round.

Do not use the mixture screw to adjust the idle. Set it to factory spec or a touch richer (some bikes were a bit lean at idle to help with emissions but it meant a bit of a crap/weak idle) and leave it alone.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Re: gt550 Reply with quote
bikenut wrote:
That did not sound tooo healthy Jay, especially towards the end of the vid before you turned the engine off!!

So re check, you did follow the cam chain refitting, droop, and cam chain tensioning procedure TO THE LETTER?? As you know the cam cover is more than that as the rubber spreader ( for cam chain droop ) is involved.......

Remember you can always prime the carbs before starting, and you know of the balancing bungs ( yes one for the tank vacc tap ) .

You have checked for oil up to the cams?? and pre oiled then on engine assembly???


I’m gonna check that cam chain again perhaps I did it wrong. I did indeed have a bung missing all 4 are on now. There is oil up at the cams, I’m gonna need to replace the valve cover gasket again it got a bit damaged and it’s leaking.
Cheers
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Easy things before you tear it apart looking for problems.

Clicky tappy noise - sort the exhaust gaskets before pulling anything else apart. I would buy two sets, because they're cheap but always seem to take ages to turn up in the post. Good to have a set for the next time you need to take the exhaust off.

High idle - check the throttle cable free play first, in case that is holding the throttle open. Then look for missing covers on the carb balancing ports. If those are fine, then check the balancing on the carbs, particularly if you had the carb bank apart to clean them. You might have two carbs with closed throttles and two a bit open.
Only then would I look at float heights and needle settings, or a carb piston put in the wrong way round.

Do not use the mixture screw to adjust the idle. Set it to factory spec or a touch richer (some bikes were a bit lean at idle to help with emissions but it meant a bit of a crap/weak idle) and leave it alone.


Cheers mate,
I’ve figured out that the idle problem was the screws that adjust how open the butterfly’s are during idle weren’t set right. In this clip you can see I’ve got my hand pushing against them to drop the idle. You can hear the sound a bit better, I don’t think it’s the exhaust but I might get new gaskets just to rule it out.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here’s that sound again when it’s idling at around 1k
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jay2903 wrote:
I’ve figured out that the idle problem was the screws that adjust how open the butterfly’s are during idle weren’t set right


You mean the screws with which you're supposed to balance the carbs. And you were playing with mixture screws to set the idle?

I'm out.
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Jay2903
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 07 Jun 2019    Post subject: Re: gt550 Reply with quote
bikenut wrote:
That did not sound tooo healthy Jay, especially towards the end of the vid before you turned the engine off!!

So re check, you did follow the cam chain refitting, droop, and cam chain tensioning procedure TO THE LETTER?? As you know the cam cover is more than that as the rubber spreader ( for cam chain droop ) is involved.......

Remember you can always prime the carbs before starting, and you know of the balancing bungs ( yes one for the tank vacc tap ) .

You have checked for oil up to the cams?? and pre oiled then on engine assembly???


I looked in the manual and it didn’t mention anything about a specific procedure with fitting the tensioner. Mine hasn’t got the little teeth that some Kawasaki chain tensioners do. Does this apply here ?
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: gt550 Reply with quote
that does not sound good jay as if summut is thumping, can thumping felt on the head??

You replaced rings, was the piston removed from the rod and fitted backwards?? the crowns are clearly marked.

How far did you strip the engine down??

Some times a bad clutch basket and out of balance carbs can be noisy.

You know of the bench ball bearing method of basic carb balancing, that balancing on the BENCH! balancing the opening of the throttle butterflies so they all open at the same time and the same amount.

Also a float /fuel level check can be done on the bench prior to fitting the carbs to the engine.

Dont know what year your engine is but cam change droop and timing is important as well as cam chain adjuster fitting, you have the manual?

check in the manual for reassembly of cams and cam chain tensioning, due to the rubber half moon slipper in the cam cover, and the proper cam positioning, droop, number of links droop, then fitting the cam cover and finally the tensioner and unloading/tensioning it.

There is a thump/knock sound that is coming from the engine which is not good !
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 08 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
The more I listen to the video, the more I think a valve or two is hitting a piston?
If the pistons are in backwards could that then happen??
(I don't know that engine)
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