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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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 Posted: 21:46 - 16 Jun 2019  Post subject: |
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| Andy_Pagin wrote: | So why, having concluded that he had not committed an offence, did they convict him? |
This is a good question and I think it's an important one.
He was tried for a summary offence in the magistrates' court. This was challenged in a higher court.
There is never any basis of appeal on a finding of fact from a lower court. No court in the land will entertain an appeal on the basis that a lower court was wrong in fact. There are only appeals on the matter of law. The law may have been improperly interpreted and misapplied. That's what gives grounds for appeal.
For ordinary criminal offences like this one, two elements are necessary:
1) A guilty act.
2) A guilty mind.
The wording in the Police Act states that for an offence of impersonation, you need to have been doing something like wearing a police uniform for purposes "calculated to deceive".
The magistrate made a mistake when they said, in the courtroom, that Emanuel may not have set out to deceive. This was a mistake that left open the avenue of appeal.
Emanuel was wearing a costume that closely resembled a police uniform. This is a finding of fact. Now let's go over that guilty act + guilty mind thing once again.
Examples of NOT being guilty of an offence under the Act:
1) If someone had knocked him unconscious and dressed him up in some kind of costume that the public would take to be a police uniform and then taken pictures of him in that costume.
2) If he had been rehearsing for or playing a part in a movie in which his role was to be a policeman.
3) If he had been doing some kind of pantomine for charity at a special needs school in a police-style costume.
4) If he lost his mind or was otherwise temporarily or permanently mentally incapable, and dressed himself in what he thought was a police uniform.
etc.
Examples of BEING guilty of an offence under the Act:
1) Trying to look like a policeman with a view to groping drunk girls outside the nightclub under the ruse of searching them for carefully hidden drugs or weapons.
2) Trying to look like a policeman with a view to gaining access to old folks' houses to rob them.
3) Trying to look like a policeman to garner the respect and admiration of the fearful at social events (RBL Walt style).
4) Trying to look like a policeman with a view to making cars and other vehicles get out of your way.
etc.
How did the magistrate make a mistake?
He said something that brought into question whether the requisite "guilty mind" was present, and then nevertheless held the knob guilty of that crime.
This was the opening that the brief (I think it's fair to assume Emanuel panicked and paid through the nose for some high-flyer) elicited by clever and cunning utterances in the trial. Remember, most defendants in the mags' court don't bring competent lawyers (solicitor advocates are a joke) simply because they cost a fortune. Magistrates can often get away with making balls-ups of a conviction, simply because the poor defendant wasn't represented, and has no means to either identify or challenge any such mistakes. On the other hand, this guy had a good lawyer. He was well-advised to trash/sell/burn or just get rid of that bike. A lawyer would have advised him to do this at the earliest opportunity. He was then advised to make a statement, and to publish it after the fact.
In his statement, he avers that the bike had no blue light and no special police markings. Do we really believe the policeman just made up those details and passed them to the papers? Or rather that this was a finding of fact in the mags' court, and reported by the reporter there, but since there's no photo nor any other affidavit that has been published, he's published his own version and is now pushing for an alternative version in which he's some innocent victim? Who knows... In any case if he was found guilty in the mags' court I, personally, doubt it was just over that vest, as he claims. He got rid of that jacket and bike pretty sharpish, didn't he...
Last edited by Bhud on 16:15 - 17 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total |
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| AshWebster |
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AshWebster
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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Posted: 12:56 - 17 Jun 2019  Post subject: |
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| AshWebster wrote: | "The case comes just a fortnight after police were accused of making it easier to impersonate criminals by selling old uniforms on the auction website."
This sentence doesnt make sense to me./.... |
Makes sense to me. 
Just found something interesting...
https://inforrm.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/EMANUEL-pdf-signed-SIOC-10.05.19.pdf
The knob says that he didn't have a blue light on his (long gone) ex-police bike. The bike is long gone, so nobody could accuse him of drilling a hole in his fairing and fitting this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ice-Blue-Car-Motor-Cycle-Bike-Side-Light-Bulbs-Wedge-501-Fitment-Box-of-10/350781569203?hash=item51ac35f8b3:g:DhsAAMXQLbVRbWjl
He also says he didn't have a Battenberg pattern, whatever that is, on his ex-police bike. I'm sure the Battenberg pattern has a strict definition, and a millimetre thicker in some line or check here or there makes all the difference, a bit like replacing "C" with "T" in the word "POLICE".
However, it's interesting that he doesn't dispute, anywhere, the allegations, in the same newspaper articles he's talking about, that he had a Royal Corps of Transport crest sticker on the front of his bike.
Royal Corps of Transport:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0855/4684/collections/RoyalCorpsofTransport-RetiredRCT_1200x1359.png?v=1512224369
Metropolitan Police:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51SuCUQsDAL._SX425_.jpg
Wikipedia says the RCT was disbanded in 1993. If you're appearing in a criminal court to answer charges of impersonating a cop, in which the question of your use of your old regimental crest on the front of your white ex-polite motorbike would come up, wouldn't you wear your regimental tie rather than a Matalan my-first-real-job special? Wouldn't it help to explain your regimental pride to the magistrate and thus help explain why you had it plastered on your bike? So I suppose the question is, if he had that RCT crest plastered onto his screen, did he even actually serve in the RCT at all? The only innocent reason I can think of for someone displaying a military crest on a vehicle is because that person has some actual connection with that regiment. And, if they do, the order of collectables they would acquire would surely have a regimental tie higher up on the list, especially if that person needed to wear ties at work... There's a lot about this case that doesn't quite add up in my mind.
Last edited by Bhud on 15:29 - 17 Jun 2019; edited 1 time in total |
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Polarbear
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 16:40 - 17 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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TBH, wanker or not I don't blame him at all for doing that.
Lazy journalism.
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Bhud
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Posted: 20:13 - 17 Jun 2019  Post subject: |
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Imagine you're a magistrate. You work with drug addicts, petty criminals, mentally ill and dishonest people all day. You start to feel pretty superior, but to be fair, the bar is pretty low. You're in a better position than most of the people you see just by using soap, in many cases. You feel yourself to be in an always superior situation to everyone. Then, one day, some guy walks in and is wearing a suit. He brings with him some low-level magick (as Crowley would say) worker. She has expensive dyes and perfumes and slick cloth. You are overwhelmed by the glamour! It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman or how old you are. What you want more than anything, because you are a bit dimwitted, is oneness in a moment. Your heart beats faster, your pupils dilate, you try to match her sultry, dulcit tones. It seems to matter less what you say than that you seem classy. You nod a lot in agreement, and beam your best smile from your best side. The most important thing to you now is to demonstrate your social status as one among the Olympians, like her. Your son or daughter is trying for law school, after all. The twentieth time she exposes her willow-like wrist and batters her neotenic eyelids open wide, you continue your rhythm of nodding, and say, "your client may not have intended to deceive" while you say what you really wanted to say (something about national security). You hold public office after all, something blah blah The Queen, we have to protect against terrorism, isn't my wand big, etc.
The circus then wends out of town, never to be seen again. Well done, Mr/Mrs Magistrate. Nobody knows your name. |
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Easy-X
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| MarJay |
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MarJay
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| Posted: 21:40 - 17 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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Interesting but the guy still comes across as a c*nt.
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| Monkeywrenche... |
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Monkeywrenche...
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| Posted: 11:09 - 18 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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| MarJay wrote: |
Interesting but the guy still comes across as a c*nt. |
He wears a special identifying garment to alert us of the fact 
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Bhud
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bhinso
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| Posted: 13:59 - 20 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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It's got less life than someone who wears a Polite vest  |
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| grr666 |
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grr666
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| Posted: 16:50 - 20 Jun 2019 Post subject: |
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I saw one of these Nobbers today on his W reg BMW "R something or other that looks the same as the last one
and the next one" He had chevrons all over his pannier boxes and some kind of coat of arms on the rear of his white
flip up lid.  3/4 length hi viz, inconsistent indication on roundabouts, the whole 9 yards. He had pulled over for a moment
(presumably to wipe the spittle from his chin) and I ended up following him right out of a housing estate where I'm working
at the moment. He was an awful rider, seeing manhole covers at the last second then erratically swerving to miss them.
I did consider making a bonnet ornament for my van out of him blaming a runaway engine (documented recent injector
related faults + I've got a good lawyer and a bad mechanic  ) but it was only a fleeting thought and him continuing
to live his shite life was more than punishment enough.
Note to self- must give my therapist a bell. 
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 307 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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