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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 17 Jun 2019    Post subject: Thermal paste replacement (GPU) Reply with quote

Did anyone here ever do the thermal paste replacement on a GPU? I've got a MSI GTX 1070 Ti Gaming X here and looking at all the benchmarks, how people get anything between 66°C and 73°C at full load, while the fans are running at rather lower rpm and the GPU boost over 1800Mhz, I can't seem to get such values. Not even when I remove the side panel and run the gfx card fans at 100% and blow a fresh air on it using a 140x140mm Noctua fan at 100% speed (roughly 1200rpm). My card runs above 80°C and throttles even down to the base clock of roughly 1600 MHz.

The internet is not full of answers, in this case. Some people even run a generous overclock while still keeping the temperatures between 66°C and 73°C.

So, replacing the paste? Could it help? What kind of paste? The process of replacing it is fairly straightforward.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 17 Jun 2019    Post subject: Re: Thermal paste replacement (GPU) Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Did anyone here ever the thermal paste replacement on a GPU? I've got a MSI GTX 1070 Ti Gaming X here and looking at all the benchmarks, how people get anything between 66°C and 73°C at full load, while the fans are running at rather lower rpm and the GPU boost over 1800Mhz, I can't seem to get such values. Not even when I remove the side panel and run the gfx card fans at 100% and blow a fresh air on it using a 140x140mm Noctua fan at 100% speed (roughly 1200rpm). My card runs above 80°C and throttles even down to the base clock of roughly 1600 MHz.

The internet is not full of answers, in this case. Some people even run a generous overclock while still keeping the temperatures between 66°C and 73°C.

So, replacing the paste? Could it help? What kind of paste? The process of replacing it is fairly straightforward.


There have been loads of group tests done by youtubers and the general result is that there isnt that much difference between cheap and expensive pastes, but the important thing is to change it for fresh when its dried out and gone crusty.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 17 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the stock paste could have just expired? Well, it's 3 years old now.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 17 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
So the stock paste could have just expired?


Yeah, it's common for paste to dry up and become less effective.
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P.
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 17 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do mine 6 monthly, purely because I clean the lot out and upgrade stuff around that time. 10 mins for no real effort.

I'll do it one more time, then its upgrade time for the GPU
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 17 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clean and polish your surfaces, watch a few videos on how to apply the paste. Less is more sort of thing.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:59 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The exact same brand and model of chip can have a variety of operating temps, it's luck of the draw unless you pay primo dollar for what are called "binned" examples (tested to run cooler and thus be more over-clockable). My brother has the same CPU as me, his ran 10 degrees hotter when clocked to the same speed as mine.

Paste doesn't go bad after three years.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
Paste doesn't go bad after three years.

You might want to check hardware specialist forums, the general advice is that it dries out in 2/3 years.
It also depends on the quality used, I've had a GPU start overheating after about a year, which needed the paste changing to bring the temps back down.

If your cpu/gpu has started to get increased temps, it's usually either airflow (clean dust out) or the paste drying out(replace it).
There isn't much more to it.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot to think about, thank you, lads.

My experience with ''stock'' paste was always it wasn't the best you could use, but it worked more than adequately and was very long lasting. With this MSI GTX 1070 Ti Gaming X however I can see already it doesn't perform that well, thermally, compared to any benchmark data out there.

And the issue is not only the noise, but also the card is slowing down when it gets near its maximum temperature target (83°C by default), which means losing up to 10 frames per second at 60 fps, which is annoying.

I'm baffled, as I have mentioned before, all the reviewers don't go above 70°C while testing their samples, with the fans running at roughly 1200 to 1400 rpm, which is what, 50% of the maximum speed, at best?

The chip in my card otherwise is very capable and with the max. thermal target moved to 92°C, I can do 2.0GHz on the GPU and put extra 500 Mhz on the v-ram with no issues at all. I don't run the card OC'd because the performance benefits aren't that great in the games, that I play, at 60Hz.

So, the only culprit I can see is either the paste, or the heatsink or maybe MSI did something wrong and didn't share this bit of info with its customers. I do know there was a slight controversy when MSI switched to Micron vram and many people had to flash the bios to get the cards working properly, but again, not my issue, I've got a later revision of the card, obviously.

Thinking of it, I could have just bought the blower cooler style card for less money and with only one 8 pin connector, to get this kind of performance (temp/clocks/noise), that I get from my ''premium'' gaming X card. Thinking

Link: https://youtu.be/kU0wZZ8QjWw?t=578 2GHz at 68°C. I can't get 68°C even with the stock clock speed, with the side panel of the case off. Even his idle temp. is way bellow what I get.
With the side panel on and two intake, one exhaust fan, I get 79°C while the card throttles from 1820Mhz (boost) to about 1770Mhz and the fan is running at 85% (roughly 2200rpm). With the panel off, we're talking 76 to 78°C, still throttling.
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P.
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

83 degrees is hot. Similar card to mine (GTX1070ti OC 8G)... And what's your airflow/cooling like.

My gpu runs at 60 degrees when playing Destiny 2 on the highest settings at 1080p with the fans on 60%... My CPU is sub 40.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got Fractal Design mini C case, with two intake fans (140x140mm Noctua) and one exhaust fan (120x120mm Fractal). Taking the front panel off results in dropping 1°C, taking the side panel off results in dropping up to 2 to 3°C. Having every fan in the case running at 100% doesn't really make much of a difference. The cable management is perfect, no obstructions in the airflow.

The CPU is a locked 65W i5 Skylake, so that doesn't really heat up the space around the gfx card.
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P.
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very similar case.

Have you considered water cooling at all? my next build is removing all fans from CPU and GPU and running full NZXT cooling and a decent radiator, but I'll be going up to a later gen board, cpu and gpu.

I'd definitely give it a strip and clean, get fresh paste on it and monitor with afterburner.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
Paste doesn't go bad after three years.

You might want to check hardware specialist forums, the general advice is that it dries out in 2/3 years.
It also depends on the quality used, I've had a GPU start overheating after about a year, which needed the paste changing to bring the temps back down.

If your cpu/gpu has started to get increased temps, it's usually either airflow (clean dust out) or the paste drying out(replace it).
There isn't much more to it.


If it's not been put on with a trowel it doesn't matter if it's dried out, it's a micro-layer that fills the gap in the micro pits to allow a greater amount of heat to bridge the space between chip and block. Yes, while it's still wet it's a bit more efficient but the difference between wet and dry is a couple of degrees.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
The difference between wet and dry is a couple of degrees.


Strange that I have dropped 5 degrees ambient and 15 degrees under load when I've changed out 2 year old paste then.

I've always seen these types of drops in temps when changing old paste.
Infact my GPU is starting to get a bit hot, I may change it soon and record the temps.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrX30b8CKeM
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 18 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not really a fair comparison. He, just like you did, replaced a stock thermal compound, which was designed to perform well for the whole life time of the card and to have long shelf life, with a high performance paste that will however deteriorate very quickly, compared to the ''stock'' paste.

That still does not explain why my gfx card, having it about 1 and a half year now, is running hot, even though if still in spec, therefore no warranty claims would be acknowledged. There is no dust in the heatsink, the fans do work as they should, the air flow in the case is perfect, I even tried to put the card into my other Define S2 PC (a huge case with 3 140x140mm fans, pushing thought so much air, that I can run the CPU passively. The S2 is also much wider, so the card has more space the breath, TLDR, I could get it down by 1°C which means no difference at all.

I will change the paste, as the last resort, then it's liquid cooling time.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
The difference between wet and dry is a couple of degrees.


Strange that I have dropped 5 degrees ambient and 15 degrees under load when I've changed out 2 year old paste then.

I've always seen these types of drops in temps when changing old paste.
Infact my GPU is starting to get a bit hot, I may change it soon and record the temps.


Could have been a poorly clamped chip, a crappy quality surface on the block, cheap-ass original paste and etc.

I've had builds (mine, for me and customers) that have been going over seven years without temp rises.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:47 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
That's not really a fair comparison. He, just like you did, replaced a stock thermal compound, which was designed to perform well for the whole life time of the card and to have long shelf life, with a high performance paste that will however deteriorate very quickly, compared to the ''stock'' paste.

That still does not explain why my gfx card, having it about 1 and a half year now, is running hot, even though if still in spec, therefore no warranty claims would be acknowledged. There is no dust in the heatsink, the fans do work as they should, the air flow in the case is perfect, I even tried to put the card into my other Define S2 PC (a huge case with 3 140x140mm fans, pushing thought so much air, that I can run the CPU passively. The S2 is also much wider, so the card has more space the breath, TLDR, I could get it down by 1°C which means no difference at all.

I will change the paste, as the last resort, then it's liquid cooling time.


I've come across blocks that have partially un-clamped, very hard to spot until disassembly.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Play with furmark for testing GPU temperatures. Wink https://geeks3d.com/furmark/downloads/

I'm with Hetzer about replacing the thermal paste shouldn't make much difference. Then again, you can't tell if it's a poorly clamped chip, a crappy quality surface on the block, cheap-ass original paste or whatever without dismantling it and replacing the thermal paste. Laughing

It's an easy enough job and you'll also get to clean all the dust out from the heat sink(s) which will also help lower temperatures.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, lads, I have replaced the thermal compound. I used the Silentium Pactum PT-1, had one syringe in my drawer, thinking if the thermal paste/heatsink fitment was my issue, even a lower tier thermal compound should show some difference, and so far it does. Although, I'm not sure about its longevity. Its heat conductivity rating is only 4 W/mK, while the standard pastes on the market are double of that. That being said, I haven't got a slightels clue if 8 W/mK is really better than 4 W/mK, or just negligeably.

I might gonna invest in some ARCTIC MX-4, or whatever, if today's efforts fail.

Notice the boost clock and fan speed. The game runs in true 4K.

BEFORE
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20190617_175842.jpg

AFTER
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20190619_180134.jpg

AFTER with roughly the same fan speed as it would run before
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20190619_180354.jpg

Some deep grooves on the heatsink Thinking
https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/img_20190619_172622.jpg
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use bench marking / stress testing programs if you're going to get geeky about measuring differences in temperatures. Wink
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Use bench marking / stress testing programs if you're going to get geeky about measuring differences in temperatures. Wink


No need to go scientific here. Lower temperature, lower fans rpm, keeping the boost clock up = good.

EDIT: Speaking of ''not really scientific'', the paste seems to be losing its ''power'', but the card still performs much better than it used to.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Ste wrote:
Use bench marking / stress testing programs if you're going to get geeky about measuring differences in temperatures. Wink


No need to go scientific here. Lower temperature, lower fans rpm, keeping the boost clock up = good.

EDIT: Speaking of ''not really scientific'', the paste seems to be losing its ''power'', but the card still performs much better than it used to.


Good to hear it's working out for you.
Some people will tell you replacing the thermal paste wont make much of a difference, and theyd be right, if the thermal paste you are replacing is good.
I wouldn't also change the paste for anything more expensive or better, every test I've seen shows really small improvements if any, from mid to high range pastes. As long as you steer clear of that white cheapo base stuff, you'll be fine for a couple of years.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done mine on old cards in the past but dont really bother now unless the card is old and your having big heat problems. It made about 5C difference on my 4 year old 7970. I still think most people do it just because they like fucking about with their computer though. Unless it's actually being throttled back because of the temps then I wouldnt even care.

Also I definetly would not do it on anything thats under warrenty as it's likely they will find out. I sent back a r9 380 once that I replaced the thermal paste on and was told they wouldnt touch it because of that.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 19 Jun 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

They found out because you told them?
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