Question about first/new bike

[Mclovin147]

Hey guys, recently passed my CBT and got my first bike, a Honda CB125R

Just attempted to take it out for the first time ever (first solo ride) and decided I was going to head to a small car park near my house to just get the feel of it before taking it out in traffic.

Anyway, wheeled it around the house to the car park like a good boy as not to wake my neighbours up at 7am on a Sunday, and took it for a slow slap around the roundabout near me, and maaaan was it jerky. I understand that on any bike, at low speeds without feathering the clutch the bike will be a little jerky when you give it some throttle, but this was also jerky when you let off the throttle..It would lurch forward on me every time. I did try the proper technique that we half heartedly learned in our CBT, the slow speed manoeuvres, slipping the clutch, keeping Revs up and controlling speed using the back brake, and it worked, I did a lap very controlled without any jerky motion or any lurching. But I’m still a little worried at the fact that this bike seemingly tried to buck me off everytime I let off the throttle to coast. It almost feels like an early down shift, or some sort of engine breaking.

The bike I did my CBT on did not do this, I could slow down nice and smoothly and coast in 1st without needing to worry about it lurching.

Is this normal? Kind of worried that I’m going to have to be bringing in the clutch a bit whenever I’m in 1st, which just seems like a serious pain (relative to what little experience I’m used to)

Needless to say I did not take it out on the road properly as I was struggling to keep it smooth in straight line at low speeds, and that it would be asking for trouble if I did

[Teflon-Mike]

Its called slip'n'drag and people who teacjh ot for a 125 IMO should be castrated with a rusty butter knife...

Principle is to under-drive the gearbox to drive the back wheel at a speed slower than the stall sped of the engine... it is NOT good practice or an i8llustrationb of fine slow-speed controll...

In sports where slow speed control is all, like trials or moto-gym-khana, to go that slow, if gears aren't low enbough.... they fit lower gears! My 250 trials bike for example has a sprocket so big it tops out at under 26mph reving the buts off the thing (If you havent fallen off the back wheelieing the dang thing!)

slip'n'drag was a technique popularised in the late 90s by DAS training on big bikes... where gears 'may' be too tall to ride slow without stalling, AND because it takes PRACTICE something few have patience for when paying to have instructor wath you wobble.... it works... but it STILL aint the best way to do it, even on a big bike... on a 125, that has a 1st gear low enough it will probably rop outr at under 20mph reving the knackers of the thing... utterly uncalled for....

Taught now,, cos so many instructors taught that way via DAS, its presumed the way to slow speed... it it aint....

Car-Park, practice and percevrance and a BIT of man up to you DONT actually haave to go THAT slo.. if you do, get off and bludy push!

Bike, if brad new, may loosen up as yu dp, if used ,ay nemefit from a service/adjust chain, possobly mew cush div rubbers....else stop trying to be cleva slip'n'drag, ride it clean clutch out and prtactice makrs perfect.

TIP, in car park, rather than start slow and worry about the jerks and wobbles, get up to speed, then slow it6 dowmn until you feel uncomfy... and practoce-practice-practice!!!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Minty]

Was this as soon as you started it and then rode it or had it warmed up?

Bikes can have their little foibles that you get used to, it could just be you need to get used to how yours works. I'd say go out for a longer ride to get a proper feel.
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My fingers smell of your mum.

[Mclovin147]

Hey man, thanks for the reply! And apologies In advance, I am very new to riding (as you know, spoke to you in my other thread )

Yes it’s brand new, 4 miles on the clock lol, I wasn’t expecting to just up and go on such a new bike and with my own minimal experience of biking, but I was a little concerned about how I was handling those lower speeds. Never experienced the lurching when letting off the throttle. Both bikes I used in the CBT were both smooth when in first and letting off the throttle, but of course, were a little jerky when I was trying to maintain a speed without the slipping the clutch technique.

On my CBT, on an older bike, if I was approaching a junction for example and knew I would have to come to a complete stop, I’d start adjusting speed by letting off the throttle and braking as and when needed and lowering through the gears in advance, and eventually drop to 1st whilst still coasting before coming to a smooth normal stop, ready to get going again at a moments notice.

Having experienced this jerking whilst letting off the throttle in 1st on my own bike, I’m trying to wrap my head around how I’m going to be able to replicate that smooth and controlled stop. I’m not afraid to go faster to test it out, but I’m quite keen to have good/smooth control of the bike at slow speeds so I can confidently approach junctions/roundabouts etc. I’m sure when this bike gets into 2nd and 3rd+ it will be golden. It’s just figuring out the slow speeds.

(Ultimate noob alert) Perhaps I’m relying on 1st gear abit too much? Maybe I should be dropping to second and coasting to a stop (Bring the clutch in before it really struggles) and swapping to first as I actually stop? But again, seems like that could be a pain in the right circumstances? I quite liked being in first a few meters before I stopped, smoother transitions all around.

I’m going to keep working on my throttle control too, I’m very sure that I’m still a little heavy handed, need to learn how to maintain the revs for extended periods of time, the throttle on this bike is very light and sensitive though so it’s gonna take some doing.

[Mclovin147]

Hey minty,

I did switch it on and leave it idle for maybe 1-2 mins. And yeah, I’m sure there are contributing factors due to it being so new. I did a little research and found that the chain being loose or misfires etc could produce this result, but I can’t see either of those being an issue with a bike that fresh from the dealerships own ‘initial service’ before sale?

[Mclovin147]

Or maybe I should be keeping the clutch in as I drop to first when coming to a stop as opposed to letting it out in first and coasting before coming to a stop?

[Minty]

Go for a proper ride, reckon you'll be fine within 20 minutes.
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My fingers smell of your mum.

[Minty]

I can't actually think whether I use first when coming to a stop, it's all autopilot now. First is a small gear so if you drop from second too soon then it will bite.

I reckon you are over thinking things, go for a proper ride at proper speeds and do what feels right. If dropping to first coming to a stop feels harsh then don't do it. You need a proper ride to get a feel of any bike.
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My fingers smell of your mum.

[Teflon-Mike]

Use the revs not thr gears.

Yes, uyse 2nd for almost all your sl;ow speed work.. it'll only do about 20mph rteving its nuts off in 2nd anyway, should be no need to slip n drag!!!! Gnash!!!

Dont upshift too many gears troo soon... its not saving the dolphins or anmything, just making more work fgor yourself and more ops tp effup!!!
No shift up, no need shift sopwmn agaion, anmd you het 'response' on the thrtottle, and loose jerks in the doiung.
Ad rough guide...
1st ONLY to get movong... let uit rev out before changing up, maybe arpound 15mnpj or so.
2nd Mother of all work gear under 25mph for traffic trickling and slo-speed.. sjhould let you tev out to 30 if needs around the houses.. DONT be agraid to let the little fecket SCREAM from time to time.. thats what it was buult for!
3rd - would be you 'normal' riding gear about town; should take you up to around 40-45mph.. remember dont be scared to lert it tev!!!
You can then use 3rcd for pretty much ALL you need to do...
4th, is your fast road gear, WHERN there is space to use it, an you are doing more than 30-40.... it shoulfd let you rev out to pretty much top speed around 65 ish....
5tj then is ONLY an over drive to knock the revs down for more relaxed cruising omn the oipem road at 50+ speeds... IF you are using 3rd or 4th om town on 20/30/40 roads you are doing it wrong and denying yourself throttle response nd begging clonks and jerks.
6th? Do you have one? If so see comment on 5th.. and use 4th & 5th like comments for 3rd!

Coming down trhe box... you only need do IF you have gone up it... and coming to a stop.. yes... slow in 2nd, clutch at lkast moment DONT COASY nad practice. if no dribe, then no comntrol! Dont do it.! Slow in 2nd, clutch at last mo as ytou stop... if you need 1st again to launch again, rember the 'afety position'.. do the cardington clog-dance to reverse from SP, select Neutral, re adopt SP, ten for launch reverse again, select 1st, reverse and appy SP.. cumbersome... but that's the Road=Kraft ways abouts... and you on L's toi practice for test where expected to ride like poster boy.. we an teach the cheats after! lol!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Mclovin147]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies and suggestions!

Took both sets of advice, just took it out again, this time on the quiet road running along the industrial estate near my house.

That ‘lurch’ felt in gear 1 is also felt among the higher gears, I got it up third and let off the throttle test, same sudden drop in speed (Maybe it’s not a lurch, maybe it is just a sharp drop, enough to feel it kinda ‘pull’)

Throttle finesse is going to be the key here I think. I knew it was important, but the older bikes had a lot more of a ‘relaxed’ feel to them, less response. Where as this thing let’s you know instantly when you let off the throttle, much more sensitive.

And yes, I agree, I think being on the older bike has made me rely on its much smoother 1st gear too much, I tried sticking to 2nd until I really had to stop, brought to 1st gear but kept the clutch in and came to a stop ‘out of gear’ rather than swapping down to 1st to stop.

Kinda sucks that I became comfortable with the original techniques, I thought that was so effortless and easy lol but clearly I must learn this, gonna assume this is what most new bikes feel like

Getting better at keeping it steady (Stopped slipping/dragging the clutch) at low speeds, but daaayum it is sensitive lol

I obviously understand that letting off the throttle will slow the bike, my new bikes response to it feels like I have given the back brake a push, rather than it just ‘losing power’ and rolling to a stop - I think this is a better explanation of what I was surprised by

[Andy_Pagin]

[Easy-X]

If it's a brand new bike the clutch plates might be a bit more bitey - this will get better over time and maybe the initial clutch cable tension is a bit off...

Ideally you'd want the biting point around half of a clutch pull, i.e. clutch out, engine on full, clutch in, engine disengaged fully, half way, engine can move bike but more throttle barely makes a difference.

TBH the clutch on most 125s are pants compared to a bigger bike.

What you have to program into your subconscious is two riding modes: normal travel you just choose the gear appropriate to your speed to try and get the best out of the engine whereas manoeuvring speed you juggle both the throttle and the clutch biting point.

Having said that, Tef has on point: for my Mod 1 they kept banging on about keeping the revs >2000 and feathering the clutch at slow speeds with a dab of the back brake if needed. "You don't want to stall the engine! That would be embarrassing..." In practice the only way to stall the MT07, I found, would be to brake without at least pulling the clutch in as well.

And even that wasn't the whole story as half the time I just blipped the throttle and coasted round the obstacles!

tl;dr find your own path, young padawan!
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Mclovin147]

I think I’m generally ok with the clutch to be fair, it’s probably my most confident area of the bike. I can pull off just fine and shift gears pretty smoothly. Iv also learnt not to trust the damn neutral lights on these machines (or maybe I just suck at finding neutral) so I always feather the clutch to check I am in neutral.

I think I have figured out that it’s this new super sensitive throttle that’s throwing me a little. Never dealt with one before, so I’m struggling to keep a smooth ride with it whenever I ease off the throttle, which is what’s causing the ‘jerking’ motion

It’s just the moment you ease off the throttle that it feels like someone has hit the brake, feels like a self braking bike lol - gonna practice rolling off the throttle reeeeaaal slow like. I can’t quite tell if there is a hard point on the throttle where it’s going to do it regardless of how slow I roll it, or if I am genuinely rolling off it too fast. Need to experiment with that.

It’s a bit annoying as easing off the throttle is my go to brake for most things. I avoid using the actual brakes as much as possible.

Sort of managing with it, if I lose my rhythm and end up in a circle jerk (That’s what I’m calling my episodes of lapse in concentration where I jerk all over the place trying to find a constant rev haha) I just pull in the clutch and sort my grip out and pick up where I left off, but it’s not ideal. Hopefully be fine with time lol

[Teflon-Mike]

New CB is fuel injected, the 'throttle' will be a butterfly in the air-stream into the engine with a radio volume knob on its shaft to tell the electrikery how far open it is, hence how much go-juice to squirt.

The 'old' bike you had on CBT could have been carbed, a much heavier throttle wiyh a slide controlling airfflo, and needles and kets the go-juice that'll be sucked in as long as aid goes in... unlike EFI that can kill squirts whyen throttloe shut to help emmisions.. iue like you describe, jerking as if ignition switched off.... and its a single, if you are used to cars that tenjd to have 4+ cyliners and a lot more mass and momentum to makje them smoother.

PRACTICE - PRACTICE - PRACTICE!!!

Bike be brand new.. if anything dont do what it aughta right now its most likely YOU not the bike, innit? So trust the bike, and PRACTICE - PRACTICE - PRACTICE!!!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[chris_hu_cheng]

It is going to be a practice thing most likely.

Does the bike idle smoothly?
Can you raise the revs quite high with the clutch in stationary and then feather the clutch out gently to get rolling slowly and smoothly?

Like Teff says, my old tech Bandit 600 is quite smooth when I kill the throttle compared to how my modern 125 behave I could engine brake on both but if I suddenly closed the throttle on the 125 it was harsh in comparison, I could feel the weight of the bike suddenly shifting to the front.

Get on some roads you are comfortable with and work it through, I can't even remember exactly how I used to stop etc. smoothly on the 125 just practice and feedback. Ironically finesse in stop/go, judging things to minimise having to put a foot down etc. is easier on the larger bike.

You are not bonkers though and your bike is mostly likely fine (maybe will get a bit smoother as it runs in). I did find that throttling off on the smaller bike was considerably more 'sudden'. Makes sense though my bigger bike has more inertia and analogue fuelling.

[Mclovin147]

Hey man, thanks for the reply!

Yes it idles just fine I think, and I did manage to slip/feather the clutch while keeping revs constant, using the back brake to control speed.

My main concern is roundabouts now. Junctions I can deal with, even if I lurch it, worst case scenario il just pull the clutch in and roll the last few meteres to come to a steady stop.

But for roundabouts, I reeeaaaaly don’t want this happening mid turn. No idea how I am going to manage that. It legit feels like someone hitting the brakes every few seconds when I’m not what feels like 100% constant with the throttle. Visions of a drop mid turn lol

Just gonna try take it out everyday and keep working on techniques to get it going smoothly

[Easy-X]

[Mclovin147]

Yep! That’s my concern lol

I was good with roundabouts on my CBT. I also was shifting up halfway through them and doing all the proper checks and managing indicators etc - wish I still had that confidence now lol

I’m quite lucky actually, the school/community centre or whatever it is near me has a small roundabout in its parking area. That will be my new dojo over the coming weeks lol - If I can master smooth throttle control while doing sharp turning and doing life savers then I should have zero issues doing it in a straight line really.

Also gonna take a walk today and develop a circuit I can do around my place. Got half of one mapped out but need to scout further up that quiet road, got a feeling it’s got a hell of a hill start waiting at the end haha

[Kentol750]

What you really need to do is ride and get used to it. Changing the gearing as TM suggests isn't a good idea. Use the techniques you were taught until you get the hang of its gearing. Using the clutch to help initially is a better idea than trying to do too much too quick. Whether or not it's a good teaching practice is not your concern. You need to get used to the way a bike works before you go on to try beating Dougie Lampkin.
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Some bikes.

[Mclovin147]

Just did a ride on my short circuit a couple times, this time focusing on my throttle control.

I’m not convinced the ‘issue’ of the lurch whilst letting off the throttle is caused by letting off the throttle too fast. I when out of my way to focus purely on the throttle, and let it out so little. The instant you let off it ‘dips/jerks/lurches’ - it’s not too bad in 3rd gear, it’s manageable now I know it coming, 2nd is a little more dodgy, and now I’m learning not to use the throttle to slow down, but keep the revs as constant as possible and use the brakes to slow down (keeping revs constant while braking), the back brake specifically, I’m still at lows speeds at the moment.

1st is still a nightmare with it. Gonna take the advice you guys have given and start getting out of the habit of dropping to 1st before stopping for stuff. Gonna stay in second as long as possible, 1st purely to pull off (Still concerned about roundabouts though, gonna need to either switch soon as I set off on one to have any hope of keeping it stable and smooth, or gradually accelerate through the entire turn. Either should be fine, acceleration is nice and smooth.

Thanks for all your advice guys, gonna keep you updated with my progress, it’s good to have people to discuss and critique my methods and add suggestions for me

(Nailed the up hill hair pin turn in second too, first time I tried it in 1st had to stop, walk it back and then go straight, second was relatively smooth and in one movement)

[Mclovin147]

Feel a bit happier now though in some respects, feel like it’s just a case of bringing what I’m learning about the quirks of this new bike together, confidently and accurately applying them, and il be away. Another week or so chilling around the block and might find the courage to terrorise the open road lol

[Easy-X]

Got any friends with bikes? Maybe get a second opinion?

If you were local I'd head over to offer some moral encouragement... for the cost of a pint
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Mclovin147]

Mmm, I do, but I won’t see them until I go back to uni lol

No worries, I’m in Sunny old Wales lol - Done some more research, as it coasts just fine with the clutch pulled in (and it’s so new) it’s very unlikely to be any mechanical issue, you guys already established that already though to be fair.

It’s sounds like I just have a ‘high compression bike’ and which has a decent engine brake. Probably exacerbated by it being a fuel injection and the sudden drop off of fuel being pumped through when the throttle is released. (correct me if I am wrong, reciting from memory lol)

Seen a few posts around the net from people with similar issues, all suggesting near enough what I’m trying to learn. Also saying to just pull the clutch in if I do need to coast (which is what I’m already doing when coming to a stop in second)

I have another question, is braking while keeping revs constant bad for the bike? It’s a habit I’m trying to get into while moving at slow speed, I’m sure the clutch and gear box will appreciate it, but not so much the back brake. I’m not slipping he clutch while I’m doing this, just easing off speed with the back brake rather than throttle to avoid the jerking. Trying to get out of the habit of being able to nicely ease off the throttle and coast all smooth and relaxed like I could on the bikes in the CBT lol